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Feb 2013
3:25pm, 12 Feb 2013
1,078 posts
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Psimon
DavieC with the mileage you are racking up, and the pace you are starting to train at then I think you are going to get some good HM times this year. However I really do think you need to nail some HM paced sessions. As with most people I find getting to HM pace on my own difficult to maintain past a few miles.
To overcome this I have found two strategies that help
1. Run with a group of people of similar ability. There are couple of my team mates that post similar HM times and we can regular nail the HM pace when running together. I do find it amusing that when we do this I feel that I am suffering a lot more than my colleagues. Usual patter is 'I was really hanging on to you there, thanks for pulling us through', with the response 'well I was really hanging on to you'.
2. Failing running with a group, then get on a treadmill and crank up the pace to HM pace. You have to sustain it then 
In terms of P&D ranges I notice it was said a while back that 15K pace should be for slower runners and HM for the quicker runners. Well 15K pace is always going to be quicker than HM as it is shorter, so more effort is going to be needed to sustain 15K pace. As for the right way to interpret ranges (be it P&D, McMillan and so on), during the start of a training cycle I would start at the lower end (eg HM pace), and once the fitness improves aim for the faster end.
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Feb 2013
3:34pm, 12 Feb 2013
2,895 posts
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daviec
I will get round to the HM paced sessions once I'm happy I've got my base fitness in place. I'm happy to make gradual improvements over the year and then really focus on one big race to see what I can do after some tempo and intervals work.
I don't have the option of group running (5am training isn't that popular ), but I used to have a course marked out with 100m increments back in Ayrshire. I was able to hit my paces on it as I could check every 100m that I was on pace. I think when I'm moving onto these I'm going to have to do them at a track. There's a 200m outdoor one nearby so that would probably have the same effect.
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Feb 2013
4:55pm, 12 Feb 2013
2,205 posts
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tom_craggs
When you are readt dc i agree with PS, but clearly when you feel you have your pace.
I'd have both the 15km running and HM paced work, personally. 15km stuff as intervals (5 x 5 mins, 6 x 5 mins, 3 x 10 mins etc), HM paced stuff as longer blocks at the end of general aerobic runs (60 mins - last 20 at HM pace for exmaple). Obviously though that is not the P&D way....definitely though race pace on tired legs is important to nail it on the day.
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Feb 2013
5:36pm, 12 Feb 2013
645 posts
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The Juicer
Hey chaps. I'm training for Manchester on April 28th, and am 'roughly' following P&D55. I haven't really been doing the tempo runs. Rather I've been doing intervals on a Weds night at the club (often long intervals, e.g. 3, 5, 7 minutes). And then sometimes racing at the weekend, between long runs.
Am I missing something crucial here? Do you think I should alternate the intervals (which I really enjoy and all my pals do them)and tempo on alternate Wednesdays? Or always do tempo runs for now, and do intervals in the final phase as the programme suggests?
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May 2013
3:42pm, 15 May 2013
1,041 posts
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Tizer
So, after a couple of years off I've decided to give a marathon another go and it didn't take me too long to decide I'll work from a slightly modified version of the 18mpw 70+ P&D plan. The first modification being that mine is 20 weeks since I reckon I've a fair bit to do. So...the first 3 weeks will be week 1 of the plan and I'll take it from there.
The other modifications are that I'll be doing more LT/MP based work than is in the plans and I'll probably keep the MP miles separate from the weekend long runs. See how it goes. All good so far, first 2 days done and I've actually followed it religiously
12 tonight though, those midweek long runs are the ones that I always struggle with. Have to make sure I do it and get off to a good start.
Target - Loch Ness
Anyone else on the P & D bus for an Autumn attempt ?
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May 2013
6:50pm, 15 May 2013
5,579 posts
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Bazoaxe
Tizer, this is interesting. I am looking at the P&D 70+ plan for VLM 2014 and have been toying with ideas. I am thinking of the 12 week plan but repeating a few of the earlier weeks, but could be swayed by an 18 week plan.
The total mileage is too high for me, but I reckon if I drop the Monday as I need my rest day and tinker with a few other bits I end up with somewhere between the 55-70 and the 70+
I will watch your progress with interest as it might help my plan
Not aiming for an autumn attempt
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May 2013
8:53pm, 15 May 2013
3,088 posts
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daviec
Excellent guys. Best of luck. I can't commit to a marathon just now, but I would actually like to for the first time in a while. In saying that I've had the opportunity to be out the past 3 days and haven't been. Laziness.
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May 2013
10:03pm, 15 May 2013
1,042 posts
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Tizer
Day 3 fail Only managed 10 miles but did them at LT pace which at the moment is not great and shows a bit of drift after 6 or 7
Im also carrying a foot injury which seems to have appeared again tonight so i all felt a bit clunky. Recovery day tomorrow though
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May 2013
10:50am, 16 May 2013
197 posts
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Miser
Good to hear the Autumn marathon training is getting underway already.
I'm planning an Autumn marathon and would like to follow something P&D esque. Unfortunately I have a big trip planned in the summer so am looking at a 9 week build-up including taper!
Other than trying to get some serious base in before my 3 week hiatus, would people think just nailing a couple of months of P&D 12 week plan would do?
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May 2013
11:23am, 16 May 2013
20,197 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Rather than doing the 70-85 schedule and having to miss a few sessions, I did the 55-70 mpw schedule and added some extras on. Psychologically this felt better! Went for adding:
Some extra 4 mile easy runs during week (easy for me to fit in, commuting or double up with another session)
All long runs to be 20 miles (in practice this meant I got 10 out of 20 weekends as 20 milers, rather than only 4 x 20 milers in P&D)
Struggled a bit with early tempos, but didn't stress about it too much.
As I've said in other places, I think all plans are the same, at their heart.
 Lot of running
As many long runs (18-22) as you can do
Most running to be slow running - esp early in programme (I managed 6:45s in my marathon, but I trained at 9, 10 or slower per mile for general runs, long runs, recovery runs etc.)
 Bits of MP, tempo and intervals (well, you have to, don't you?!)
The other thing I always harp on about (maybe it's just me that needs it because I'm frail and brittle) but core work, strength work, stretching, foam roller/massage (depending how rich you are) and cross train are important too, imho!
Good luck P&Ders! :-)G
P.S. Anyone want my book as I'm never training for another marathon again!
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