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Furman Institute of Running and Scientific Training (F.I.R.S.T.) acolytes!

116 watchers
6 Jul
2:55pm, 6 Jul 2021
39093 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Which marathon, when, and what are you hoping to target time wise, versus what you've achieved before?
6 Jul
3:04pm, 6 Jul 2021
28966 posts
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macca 53
Another lapsed furmanite here with my two pennorth!

When I was doing it I noticed that my long slow runs were done basically at about 70% effort so I changed to carrying them out to heart rate rather than pace (140 bpm). This is also the basis for most aerobic gain.

The sprint sessions were very hard!

I have often heard it said that mostly in running clubs run our “slow” runs too quickly and our speed sessions too slowly and I think I agree with that!

Good luck and work hard but you definitely have to do five days of hard work a week
6 Jul
4:06pm, 6 Jul 2021
6811 posts
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FenlandRunner
Yep, you're spot on macca.

Club runners do seem very one paced and miss out on a whole range of improvements.

I read today something that rang very true. Easy runs should feel even easier than envisaged, but hard runs should feel harder.
6 Jul
5:34pm, 6 Jul 2021
3 posts
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ES-335
The marathon is in Nov - 16 weeks trading to start next week. It’s a fairly casual one by the River Thames and my aspiration is to finish! Although I’d take a respectable time, is that below 4:30 seems reasonable if my half is ~ 2 hours.

With respect to aerobic fitness if longer slower rows help I can certainly do that.

Here’s an interesting comparison

thewiredrunner.com

The summary:

In reality, it probably is best to do a little bit of both to get the best of both worlds—the cardiovascular benefits of running and the muscle and endurance building of rowing.
7 Jul
10:33am, 7 Jul 2021
39097 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Interesting comparison. However, the question they are answering is "better work out", whereas the challenge that I proposed was what is "better for your marathon training"? Which I think is relevant to all of us.

And my conclusion was that that more running was better for marathon, rather than more of any type of cross training! No sh*t Sherlock you might think. But it's enticing to think that similar amount of any cross train (swim, bike, row etc.) would give you similar benefit. In pure CV terms perhaps yes. But specificity - the building of soft tissue resilience, specific muscle strength and capability etc. No.

So I think you need to do *more* of the cross train than the equivalent time running to try to close that benefit gap. Not the same, and certainly not less.

A running only training plan with e.g. 50 miles per week would be roughly 7-10 hours per week, depending how fast/slow you run! If you do 25 of FIRST, then you need to find 3-5 hours of additional cross-training, or more!

That was one of my findings. Caveat, only did it for less than a year, and only did one marathon PB attempt off it. Then went back to P&D (Pfitzinger and Douglas, Advanced Marathoning) programmes for next 3 to get my PB. So limited sample set, I completely accept! :-) G
7 Jul
5:00pm, 7 Jul 2021
4 posts
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ES-335
Thanks - I’ve bought the book which is much more detailed.

I do agree that to train for a marathon run event you probably can’t beat actual running.

I’m committed now so I’ll have to do some variation of FIRST I think. Noting your comments around beefing the cross training up.

I’ll have to be realistic with the running as well 2/3 sometime all 3 of my runs are done later at night - 9 even 10pm isn’t unusual.

So whilst I can do PB 5ks around 23 mins fasted on Sunday morning with maybe just a coffee inside me. I can’t get near my best times that late in the day being more tired and fully fed.

I’m going to work out my FIRST key run paces based on a 5k of 26 mins I think. It should keep it all manageable looking at the tables. Fingers crossed!
25 Aug
6:33pm, 25 Aug 2021
22 posts
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ES-335
Just thought I’d give a quick update. I’m 7 weeks in and happy with the programme. I’m really enjoying the Key Run 1 which is the speed session and is a new approach to running for me.

I also entered a HM on week 5 and although the plan doesn’t recommend it I raced it and beat my best by 5 mins. I don’t read too much into that as I’d only attempted the distance on 3 previous occasions, but I felt strong and on a hilly route (for me) managed to completed it with negative splits. I’m sure the speed sessions helped there.

I’ll report in again if anyone is interested after the 26.2 with an update. My aspirations have changed from wanting to finish to going sub 4 hours. We will see…
25 Aug
9:55pm, 25 Aug 2021
39542 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
That's brilliant ES335. Glad it's going well for you. Do keep us posted. :-) G

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About This Thread

Maintained by Lalli
This thread is for those who are currently doing or want to do Furman type training, to share tips, log progress etc.

What is Furman? Simply, it's "Run 3 days, do non-running exercise for 2-3 other days". And that's it really!

Some links:
Furman home page: www2.furman.edu
Furman mara plan (you will need to copy and paste the link into your browser as this is a download document): www.wu.ece.ufl.edu/marathon%20training-first%20marathon.pdf
Runners World published version (another downloadable): www.runnersworld.co.uk/general/the...marathon-schedule/2493.html
Furman core/strength exercises: beginners.runnersworld.com
Furman cross training examples: www2.furman.edu

The book (other booksellers are available...! ) amazon.co.uk

http://www.fetcheveryone.com/blog-view.php?id=10866 - Link to lunaman's blog of his experiences of 2 marathons based on Furman. Really good read based on real-world.

My own (HappyG) marathon experience off back of 6 month's very-Furman training. Yes, it was a Peeb! http://www.fetcheveryone.com/blog-view.php?id=13263&y=2011&m=4#240604

And here's a nifty little pace calculator courtesy of lunaman: fellrnr.com

Upcoming target races...

March 2016
HappyG(rrr) - 20 March - Alloa Half

April 2016
GeologyRocks - 17 April - Brighton Marathon

FenlandRunner - 24 April - VMLM

Furman focus, will bring rewards.

(Pls let me (Lalli) know if you want to be added or removed from the side panel).
Good luck everyone!

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