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May 2023
11:32am, 21 May 2023
2,687 posts
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Bowman 🇸🇪
Cheers Riggys, I needed a confidence booster 
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May 2023
9:50pm, 22 May 2023
21,148 posts
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larkim
Last minute decision to take son to track session tonight, not a bad option if I'm looking to be speedy in a few weeks over 10k. Set a target of up to 45s per 200m on my watch to try to make sub 90 for each lap and just about hung in there.
1600m - 5:57
1200m - 4:25
1000m - 3:41
800m - 2:57
600m - 2:11
400m - 1:21
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May 2023
3:35am, 23 May 2023
14,851 posts
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jda
I've been spending some tough days MTBing. Tried to do 6x4 mins running early this morning and my pace was about the same as the last 6k of my recent marathon
One week to race day, and we've now got the added bonus of smog from forest fires that's come all the way down from Canada.
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May 2023
11:36am, 23 May 2023
21,152 posts
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larkim
On another site I was being my normal helpful (!) self and arguing that the difference between 5k pace and 10k pace for the purposes of intervals wasn't that great so it was often understandable if runners found it challenging to hit one or the other with precision in the context of someone aiming for a sub 40.
My observation was that there was an equivalence between 19:40 and 40:00 in terms of the two race distances, based on the Standards WAVA tables on here for a 48yo male.
But VDOT calculators would give 19:18 and 40:00 as equivalences. Quite a difference.
Is this just "old blokes are better at hanging on"? Just checked the Standards for a 30yo male here and that shifts towards 19:28 and 40:00 so clearly it does move more than I'd expected.
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May 2023
3:41pm, 23 May 2023
14,854 posts
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jda
Your mistake is using another site
The converters are a bit approximate, as is using a wava table. It’s hard to find courses that are truly equivalent too. I suppose two laps of a 5k course should do it
Even if the theory behind Riegel factors was true (and it’s only a theory, that clearly breaks down at extremes) the number to use is still only an estimate. It’s a guide not a law.
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May 2023
4:07pm, 23 May 2023
2,705 posts
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Bowman 🇸🇪
Prediction, calculators and conversions forms and sites are a bit like weather sites, you look until you find one that suites your wishes
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May 2023
4:33pm, 23 May 2023
21,155 posts
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larkim
I looked a bit more and got these various 5 to 10 conversions:-
Male WR (track) - double plus 59s (even at 12m35s 5k pace - so more extreme would be expected at 40min pace)
Male WR (road) - double plus 46s
Male IAAF points table - double plus 2m40 (!) at 40min 10k pace (294 IAAF points)
VDOT - double plus 1m24 (for 40min pace)
WAVA aged 30 - double plus 1m04s (for 40min pace)
WAVA aged 50 - double plus 38s (for 40 min pace)
Reigel factor of ^1.06 - double plus 1m38
Quite surprised how different these are; but interesting how much harder the WAVA outputs are than some of the others. The WR one is interesting - the road standards use 12:51 and 26:24 as the 100% factors, but the track WR is 16s faster than that over 5k, but only 13k faster than that over 10k (and of course there are track specific WMA factors too). The road WRs are closer to the standards, but the 5k WR has only relatively recently been recognised as a thing so maybe needs a little while to bed in. But I've not quite got my head around the maths that a road WR-based standard at "peak" age (i.e. under 30) and WR pace has a wider "double plus" conversion that it does for a 50yo man.
For female athletes, the conversion for WAVA at age 30 is even tighter - 19:47 5k = 40:00 10k apparently, age 50 it is 19:38/40:00.
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May 2023
5:55pm, 29 May 2023
14,863 posts
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jda
Well I missed my sub-40 by a minute and was 30s slower than last time I did the Bolder Boulder (5y ago) but that's still a big wava pb for the course. Gave it a decent go but was always struggling to hold the pace on my garmin and by the time you add on the extra 100m at the end I wasn't really very close. Even with new super shoes which I didn't have last time (jury is out on how fast they are, I suppose).
A fun day out but I think I have to accept that this ship has sailed as far as breaking 40 in this event. 3rd in my year group out of about 300, the top two were comfortably under 40.
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May 2023
6:26pm, 29 May 2023
2,727 posts
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Bowman 🇸🇪
Well done JDA!
So it’s about 3 min off your last 10k due to the altitude, crazy!
How did it feel? A big difference to normal altitude?
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May 2023
6:38pm, 29 May 2023
2,546 posts
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Big_G
What height above sea level are you at there, JDA? Does that play a part, at all?
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