The Sub 3:15 Marathon Thread

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9:15am, 29 Nov 2022
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I've only recently started doing social chatty runs with my better half where I'd get close to being around 70% MHR. Most of my stuff is in Karvonnen Z2, and towards the upper end of that. Though at the moment I'm struggling to keep it there at a pace which I feel interested enough to bother running solo. Maybe I should run with my wife more!
9:26am, 29 Nov 2022
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I just don’t get this thing about a run having to be hard to be interesting. Hard runs hurt! I don’t like hurting! I can put up with it occasionally but wouldn’t run much if it was all like that.
10:02am, 29 Nov 2022
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jda, I know where you’re coming from. I’m not as quick as many on here but when I did my PB earlier this year I had loads of people saying to me ‘you deserve that, you trained hard’. Really, I don’t think I ‘trained hard’ in the traditional sense, apart from maybe 2 sessions and 1 or 2 races in the build up. The rest was just steady running and enjoyable, with the large majority at about 70-72% HR Max, on undulating routes, which usually worked out about 2-2.5mins/mile slower than my eventual MP. I do enjoy running with other people but I find they train too quickly for me, so I train alone most of the time. On occasion I’d be out for a 20-miler on the coast path and it’d take me 5hrs, but I don’t care about the pace. In fact I don’t even have pace displayed on my watch - I just have HR and distance, with distance/pace alerts turned off.
10:09am, 29 Nov 2022
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I just have time elapsed or time of day displaying for general runs. I want runs to flow whatever the pace.

Rarely combine pace with distance.
10:21am, 29 Nov 2022
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I agree jda - but 8m30 runs aren't hard or hurting, they are just over 70% MHR. Any "hard" or "hurt" starts to creep in at about 8min/mile, and even then that's not hard or hurting in truth.

I more or less can run all day at 8m30 pace on nice flat roads, whereas when I'm in the sub 70% MHR I'm pootling along with my wife at 10min+ miling. Perfectly pleasant and all that, but if I'm doing 8-10 miles on my own I'd rather save quarter of an hour for other things by running easy at 8m30 than super easy at 10m00 pace.

I do use my watch to slow myeslf down into Z2 Karvonnen (60-70% WHR, so for me ((178-48)*.7)+48=139max but 0.7*178=125 and that would be a fair whack slower.
12:03pm, 29 Nov 2022
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I ended up running partly in the vegetarian zone today (I like that name, haha) because I ran with my club and they tend to run just a bit faster than what I would call easy and not hard enough to count as a tempo - neither meat nor fish. Average HR 148, that's 79% of max or 72% of WHR so right at the limit of the veggie zone (80% of max). It doesn't really feel hard, I could run several hours like that but I prefer going a bit slower and with an avg HR of 143 or less.

I agree that you should probably avoid running a lot in the veggie zone but since I'm preparing for a marathon training plan, running once a week in that zone will help with the marathon paced training runs. As long as I still have 3-4 easier runs a week and 1 harder session, I think I'm good.
1:45pm, 29 Nov 2022
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Stumbled upon this

That links to a myriad of HR zone methodologies. The fact that there are so many leads me to think none of them are right for everyone and all of them may be right for someone. YMMV!
2:10pm, 29 Nov 2022
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Stumbled upon this That links to a myriad of HR zone methodologies. The fact that there are so many leads me to think none of them are right for everyone and all of them may be right for someone. YMMV!

I think your right larkim. Its a case of finding the one that works for you and that you enjoy.

The EIM has the following HR zones for different long runs

moderate endurance (a bit like a P+D midweek medium long run) 85% of LT

long endurance run 75-80% of LT
For both of these run I put surges at marathon pace or quicker in.

For all runs I tend to use a combination of HR pace and perceived effort and what the aim of the run(or even the part of the run I am on) is to judge if I need to speed up/slow down
3:54pm, 29 Nov 2022
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Forrest Jooligan
My best ever period of running I slowed my runs to be below 136bpm (78% of MHR) for everything except my weekly racing. Just a month after an underwhelming XC race I set my first PB (5M), I had another over the same distance a few weeks later then an AT parkrun PB, HM PB, a 20M PB & a 10M PB in successive months. I was all set for a marathon PB too but 2 things happened. Firstly my HRM broke so my training runs became harder & then my target marathon was the hottest London ever.
4:51pm, 29 Nov 2022
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And of course, HR (MHR, HRR, whatever) is only half the story anyway. Quite often my easy runs feel hard because I already have a high baseline level of fatigue after work. Running by PRE would give a whole other story, even for two runs with identical HR. Quite often I'm not running at a snail's pace because it's a deliberate strategy, it's because I've already been on my feet shifting heavy things around all day and I'm knackered!

My run-commute home is only 5.4 miles, but it's often slower *and* feels harder than my weekend long runs.

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Maintained by Windsor Wool
For those who want to go sub 3.15 in a marathon and/or those that have already done it and want to give advice. Share your journey (or help someone else's!) here.

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