Transgender Athletes

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paul the builder Dec 2021 6:36pm, 2 Dec 2021 7,350 posts	0 paul the builder From where I’m standing it seems to be mainly men who have the strongest views on what is very much a non-male issue. You're quite new here. I don't think this is a fair categorisation of the contributors to this subject when it has been discussed of late (on other threads too, and also blogs). Plus - have you seen how women are treated when they speak up on the topic?
MsG Dec 2021 6:42pm, 2 Dec 2021 1,987 posts	0 MsG Larkim on the subject of fairness I refer you to my comment on page 76 (it's ⅔ of the way down on the most pinned for ease).
Fields & fountain, moor & mountain Dec 2021 6:42pm, 2 Dec 2021 704 posts	0 Fields & fountain, moor & mountain Yes I have seen how women are treated and it’s gravely concerning. I will admit to have not read all 91 pages of this thread, and other threads / blogs, and was merely offering an observation as it was to, as you rightly call me, a newcomer and outsider. Will back out now of this topic, as my observation has clearly touched a few nerves - incidentally on men - and I can tell it’s not been welcomed.
RooA Dec 2021 6:42pm, 2 Dec 2021 1,683 posts	0 RooA Also. Nice de-rail.
RooA Dec 2021 6:43pm, 2 Dec 2021 1,684 posts	0 RooA I don't give a damn about the sex of people talking. I just want us to be bloody talking about the topic at hand, not talking about who is allowed to talk about it.
larkim Dec 2021 6:50pm, 2 Dec 2021 16,194 posts	0 larkim @ptb your diagnosis is probably quite correct, but I think it's too broad a term too which probably doesn't help. He equates fairness to safety, which in rugby I can absolutely see. But that surely doesn't apply to road running or golf where fairness is purely that competitive aspect. I originally got interested in this issue as a transwoman competed against my wife and others in a local track league, where she was distinctly mid pack and thoroughly welcomed by everyone there (as far as I could tell) and it felt a really positive thing for her to be included when I imagined that not every aspect of her life would see such inclusivity. It's taken me a while to appreciate a) the scientific basis for the inherent advantage and b) the impact that it has on female competitors for me to change my perspective on it. Dr Hilton made a great point about getting lumped in with the Christian right wingers in the US when you are in agreement with her and Tucker on the issue, and I suspect that also helped in me having a starting point which was all pro-inclusivity to the exclusion of everything else. Anyway, nothing in the last half hour of the podcast that got my goat. Dr Hilton was excellent I thought.
MsG Dec 2021 6:52pm, 2 Dec 2021 1,989 posts	0 MsG @larkim also consider how comfortable any of the women in the league would feel about expressing concern, given the abuse they might receive?
The_Saint Dec 2021 7:02pm, 2 Dec 2021 6,917 posts	0 The_Saint I am what is crudely known as "white", should I conclude that racism is someone else's issue?
paul the builder Dec 2021 7:07pm, 2 Dec 2021 7,351 posts	0 paul the builder Will back out now of this topic, as my observation has clearly touched a few nerves - incidentally on men - and I can tell it’s not been welcomed. I don't believe you've touched any nerves or caused any problems. But in 3 posts you didn't mention the topic itself yet.
Fields & fountain, moor & mountain Dec 2021 7:17pm, 2 Dec 2021 707 posts	0 Fields & fountain, moor & mountain I don’t know enough about the subject to offer more than an uninformed opinion, and I doubt the thread requires any more of them. My general approach with difficult decisions is to take the route which causes the least impact on the fewest people.