Oct 2018
8:31pm, 23 Oct 2018
7,697 posts
|
simbil
Lending and eu membership are 2 different things. Debt restructuring is nothing to do with memberships payments and what comes back in eu investment. If Greece weren’t in debt, they would be a net beneficiary. They were not forced to be in debt, they did not have to host the Olympics for example and they could do a better job of collecting taxes. Not to say I am unsympathetic, but you can’t lay all the blame with the eu either. |
Oct 2018
8:52pm, 23 Oct 2018
3,206 posts
|
jdarun
Jovi, why is it the EU's fault that our govts have sold of so much of our national infrastructure? How does leaving the EU change that?
|
Oct 2018
9:34pm, 23 Oct 2018
237 posts
|
deslauriers
JDA- it doesn't. If anything it will exacerbate that problem. Jovi- I truly sympathise with what you say. The people of Greece have suffered terribly. But, did the EU make Greece borrow the way it did? I don't agree with the borderline conspiracy theory that Germany engineered the euro such that Southern countries would be in such debt. Greece's problems stem from its own borrowing and the crash of 2008. Much like Britain's problems. Blaming the EU is fruitless. Leaving it will not help us or Greece. Part of me thinks bring on the suffering. Maybe it will cure Britain (largely England, I should say) of this exceptionalist thinking. But then again, the most vulnerable really will take a pounding. Maybe it would be better to hold a second referendum in two years. Gives everyone a chance to see the advantages of EU membership and people the chance to safely change their mind without the cognitive dissonance that is blighting the country now. |
Oct 2018
10:39pm, 23 Oct 2018
1,469 posts
|
J2R
We could have another referendum in two years, sure. But how long would it be before we could get back in? Many years, probably, and we would have to adopt the Euro and be in Schengen, which would be unpopular. I think an awful lot of damage will be done by that point.
|
|
Oct 2018
7:38am, 24 Oct 2018
238 posts
|
deslauriers
J2R- I agree with all you say. However, we don't have a responsible government, nor a truly useful opposition. Maybe by that point we'll happily adopt the euro and Schengen. Judging by the mess a no-deal will likely bring, it'll seem like a small price to pay. |
Oct 2018
8:37am, 24 Oct 2018
5,510 posts
|
Jovi Runner
deslauriers - As with all things - the man in the street did not ask to borrow that money and has seen very little of it - as I said previously - a lot went to government cronies vanity projects. SoYes, some infrastructure projects have been done but a lot of these were done by foreign companies thereby taking money out of the country after being given it. Contrary to what you might read in the gutter press the people (I mean people like you and I) have seen none of this money and have not been prolifregate as it is claimed. To blame the Greek people for their suffering is ridiculous - like blaming you or I for the decisions of Theresa May!
|
|
Oct 2018
8:39am, 24 Oct 2018
5,511 posts
|
Jovi Runner
IMO the EU can never work - the countries within it are just too diverse - in their history and current thinking. Forcing ever closer union will never work and without total fiscal and tax union the mechanisms of the EU will never work efficiently.
|
Oct 2018
8:54am, 24 Oct 2018
17,354 posts
|
ChrisHB
Does the EU not require public services to be privatised? I'm almost sure railways (track) and trains are required to be run by separate companies.
|
Oct 2018
9:59am, 24 Oct 2018
169 posts
|
paul0
Jovi - 'Ever-closer union' doesn't have to be the ethos of the EU, there are other ways it could develop and the EU is looking at these. Being against ever-close union doesn't mean you have to be against being in the EU at all. ChrisHB - the EU doesn't require public services to be privatised (as demonstrated by the continued public delivery of many services in the UK). It does have restrictions on where governments can support specific domestic companies over foreign companies (State Aid - Article 107) or how state owned companies must operate (i.e. showing that they are not excluding private companies), but it also has specific provisions for when public delivery of services is appropriate because they are in the public interest (Service of General Economic Interest). I think you're right about separation of track and train in rail, but that doesn't mean they can't be State owned - SNCF is, Network Rail (track) effectively is and the East Coast franchise currently is. |
|
Oct 2018
10:00am, 24 Oct 2018
1,470 posts
|
J2R
I would love to believe that we could leave the EU, people then find out the hard way that Project Fear was Project Reality all along (those bad things the expert said were going to happen actually happening), we have a vote where we decide we want back in and then we rejoin, chastened and having learned our lesson. Sadly, I just don't think this is how it works now. Whatever the evidence that those experts were right all along, this is not how it would be perceived. Something or someone else (most likely the EU) would be blamed for the mayhem and the lesson would not be learned. I just think the Internet, which should be the greatest mechanism for the spread of knowledge mankind has ever known, is somehow actually a much more effective mechanism for spreading crap ideas than good ones. ChrisHB, no the EU doesn't require privatisation, just not a nationalised monopoly. Good answers here: theconversation.com |
Useful Links
FE accepts no responsibility for external links. Or anything, really.Related Threads
-
EU Referendum - In or Out? Vote here
Aug 2018
-
March to Parliament Against Brexit - Sat 2nd July
Jun 2016
-
EU Referendum
Feb 2016
-
Ads on Fetch - anyone else getting Leave and Remain?!
Feb 2017
-
The Environment Thread :-)
May 2024
-
Economics
Aug 2023
-
Dear Scottish Fetchies
Jan 2023
-
Any economists out there - question
Oct 2022
-
Power and exploitation - please check my sanity
Oct 2018
-
The most evil man in Politics..
Feb 2017
