Politics
15 lurkers |
197 watchers
| 30 Day Post Breakdown | Female | Male | Unspecified |
| Posts (Contributors) | 8 (2) | 728 (35) | 2 (1) |
Oct 2018
12:39pm, 23 Oct 2018
1,458 posts
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J2R
Come on, this is nonsense! The EU is clearly a redistributive system, where richer countries subsidise poorer countries (and richer regions subsidise poorer regions). You won't find any 'facts' that prove the opposite. Why on earth have the poorer countries of Europe being clamouring to join otherwise? It just doesn't work so well at times and mistakes have been made (what happened with Greece being an example). But as jdarun points out, it isn't a zero sum game. When richer countries (like Britain) subsidise poorer countries, it isn't out of altruism, though, it's because ultimately we benefit, firstly from expanding markets, and secondly because a more equal Europe benefits all within it (much as a more equal society benefits all within it). |
Oct 2018
1:08pm, 23 Oct 2018
3,200 posts
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jdarun
And that, my friends, is the intelligent, considered case for brexit!
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Oct 2018
1:17pm, 23 Oct 2018
1,460 posts
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J2R
jdarun, ???
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Oct 2018
1:25pm, 23 Oct 2018
3,201 posts
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jdarun
I didn't mean you!
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Oct 2018
1:32pm, 23 Oct 2018
1,461 posts
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J2R
That's a relief! Happy to be regarded as intelligent, less happy to be regarded as making a case for Brexit :).
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Oct 2018
1:37pm, 23 Oct 2018
20,021 posts
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fetcheveryone
Order, order 
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Oct 2018
1:41pm, 23 Oct 2018
234 posts
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deslauriers
If the EU is such a force for "neo-liberal" (can't stand how that is misused- not necessarily here on fetch, however) capitalism and is deliberately punitive to the poorer states, how come there is no clamour to leave? Hungary clearly disagrees with the EU on many issues; no sign of leaving Italy, at the moment, has a rabidly right-wing government; no sign of leaving Greece: has been described on here in detail how much people are suffering; no sign of leaving The other point I would make is that, while posters here wish to leave on the grounds of unfair treatment to Greece and other poorer states, do they seriously believe that this was a consideration for many other Leave voters? After all, May has said it was a vote to stop immigration (which is fucking comical since as a long serving Home Secretary, she managed to do nothing to control it). Rees-Mogg, by contrast, will have no truck with that idea, arguing it was a vote for freedom. Some Labour voting Leavers (Lexiters?) argue that it was a vote to move away from a destructive, ruthless form of capitalism. Others have argued it was a chance to "get our money back". There is clearly no coherent view of the reasons for leaving the EU. We've seen leaving the EU portrayed as the "sunlit uplands", then "we knew there would be some turbulence" to "It's not the end of the world." At every iteration, Brexiters have said they knew this, knew what they were voting for etc. Fact is, looking at the diversity of views (many contradictory), it's clear that many seriously didn't and still don't have a clue. Which is why we are in the mess we are in; a bunch of people whose only argument is that they won, we lost. Nothing else. Leaving the EU will do fuck all for the people of Greece. |
Oct 2018
2:14pm, 23 Oct 2018
5,506 posts
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Jovi Runner
simbil - If someone can produce me a "fact" that shows poorer countries get out more than they put in I'm willing to look at it. The reason countries aren't clamouring to leave is that it suits the ruling elite to remain in so no matter how poor their citizens get they will be happy with the status quo thereby not giving their citizens a chance to object to the EU. I've been laughed at for being naive but I think it's more naive to believe the EU is some benevolent organisation run for the benefit of its citizens and poorer countries.
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Oct 2018
2:28pm, 23 Oct 2018
235 posts
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deslauriers
By that logic, it suited Cameron and the ruling elite to keep us in. Why did he give us the referendum vote, then?
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Oct 2018
2:31pm, 23 Oct 2018
65 posts
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TommyK
Jovi, not quite what you asked for, however, here's the reverse side of the coin - The UK's contribution v payments. fullfact.org I'm happy to take Full Fact's word for it, so, where did the our net £8.6bn contribution go, if not to countries that are net beneficiaries (I note their comment re payments direct to the private sector)? fullfact.org |
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