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Transgender Athletes

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MsG Jun 2021 3:44pm, 24 Jun 2021 1,873 posts	Quote Pin MsG To respond to larkim 14891 question. In paracycling, there are tandem competitors for various categories. Some competitors may become eligible to compete in paracycling through events. However they don't then start competing in the female category if male (British Cycling rules not withstanding) so I don't think the analogy maps to the topic under consideration here.
MsG Jun 2021 4:26pm, 24 Jun 2021 1,875 posts	Quote Pin MsG And to answer 14893. Personally I don't think that analogies are helpful and yes, I find it doubtful that the two positions can be reconciled. The creation of a third category may be a fairer solution 🤷🏻‍♀️
Bazoaxe Jun 2021 8:32am, 25 Jun 2021 20,150 posts	Quote Pin Bazoaxe Sky news have a piece coming on at 08:40 discussing Hubbard and with Ross tucker.
The Great Raemondo Jul 2021 6:42am, 6 Jul 2021 7,941 posts	Quote Pin The Great Raemondo An interesting twitter thread on the whole T level rule, which it seems has now been changed and is excluding a significant number of cis female athletes. mobile.twitter.com
SPR Jul 2021 8:25am, 6 Jul 2021 34,730 posts	Quote Pin SPR The testosterone rule in athletics only applies to athletes with certain DSDs. All women are not being testosterone tested. I'd need to look at the IOC policy but I'd expect the starting point is certain DSDs as well. worldathletics.org The DSD regulations only apply to individuals who are: legally female (or intersex) and who have one of a certain number of specified DSDs, which mean that they have: male chromosomes (XY) not female chromosomes (XX) testes not ovaries circulating testosterone in the male range (7.7 to 29.4 nmol/L) not the (much lower) female range (0.06 to 1.68 nmol/L); and the ability to make use of that testosterone circulating within their bodies (i.e., they are ‘androgen-sensitive’).
RooA Jul 2021 8:54am, 6 Jul 2021 1,256 posts	Quote Pin RooA The paper the data were pulled from. clindiabetesendo.biomedcentral.com It's almost as if the differences in performance between males and females is more richly complex than women being just like men but with lower testosterone. So lowering the testosterone of a male body does not, in fact, qualify that male body as female for sporting purposes. The twitter poster has, I believe, previously stated that transwomen should be allowed to compete in women's sports with no alterations to their physical selves at all. So I'm not sure that fairness in women's sport is a priority there.
The Great Raemondo Jul 2021 8:55am, 6 Jul 2021 7,942 posts	Quote Pin The Great Raemondo Nothing I've read about the athletes who are being excluded suggests they fall into the that category reuters.com
RooA Jul 2021 9:08am, 6 Jul 2021 1,257 posts	Quote Pin RooA I believe Mboma and Masilingi have XY chromosomes and the same DSD as Caster Semenya.
SPR Jul 2021 9:08am, 6 Jul 2021 34,732 posts	Quote Pin SPR The rule only applies to that category though so there's either an error or they are in that category.
jda Jul 2021 9:22am, 6 Jul 2021 10,464 posts	Quote Pin jda It's a rather silly twitter thread (was anyone suggesting T level as the sole determinant of sporting eligibility?) but the underlying point is an important one. As I've said for a while, the entire trans sporting debate seems to be just one facet of the wider discussion over what it means to be a women for sporting purposes. It is surely a hopeless task to categorise trans people for sporting purposes without some clarity over what the categories are that they are being classified into! But saying that any rule or threshold is arbitrary and will cause anomalies, is not a meaningful or sensible argument against rules. Of course rules will lead to thresholds and anomalies, that is intrinsic to the concept of rules. If you want a protected class at all, it has to have a boundary.