Jun 2022
3:04pm, 22 Jun 2022
37,085 posts
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SPR
You can't go to a track and tell an 800m runner they're doing intervals wrong because Daniels tells you this is how they should be done.
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Jun 2022
3:14pm, 22 Jun 2022
4,235 posts
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Dillthedog
I find Pete Magill's Fast 5k book to be an excellent guide to training for shorter distances. His shortest reps are for 30 seconds at 1500m pace. For a 24 min 5k runner, converted to 800m timing would be 3:28 - 3:34, so you would be about the right pace, but for shorter reps, ie 30 secs
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Jun 2022
3:14pm, 22 Jun 2022
37,086 posts
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SPR
To be clear, I used to argue that intervals were different from repetitions but there's no point because no one else uses it that way. So better to just explain what you're actually trying to do a intervals on its own doesn't get that across.
It wasn't really the pace that made them different though, it was one was intervals always had incomplete recovery. Not many people use that description though.
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Jun 2022
3:30pm, 22 Jun 2022
17,354 posts
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rf_fozzy
Daniels clearly distinguishes interval/repetition/threshold paces for different distance runners (MD, long distance) in his book.
"To be clear, I used to argue that intervals were different from repetitions but there's no point because no one else uses it that way."
Well you should keep going, because they are different.
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Jun 2022
4:28pm, 22 Jun 2022
37,087 posts
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SPR
Yes but as I said not because of pace and if me and you are arguing about what intervals mean then it shows its pointless given the two people that would split the two can't agree..
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Jun 2022
10:09am, 23 Jun 2022
18,117 posts
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larkim
Extracts from Daniels Running Formula. Main section on I and below the line on R.
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Jun 2022
10:45am, 23 Jun 2022
18,195 posts
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Autumnleaves
Thanks for sharing that larkim. I coach weekly sessions for our club which are all broadly interval sessions insofar as they include some hard efforts and some recoveries. I do them to time because we are a mixed ability group. Sometimes the aim is to pace a set of intervals consistently, sometimes the idea is to progress the pace. I usually offer a choice in terms of target pace depending on the race distance people are training for. There are also some runners in the group who are hazy as to what their race paces technically are, so they may need to work on RPE. Personally I tend to run my intervals slightly quicker than I would set out on any race distance - because I quite enjoy working like that - but it isn't for everyone. The main thing I find I have to stress is that the recoveries - of whatever length - should be taken properly. Too many runners jog through a recovery too quickly, meaning that you end up with not enough differential between the fast and easy pace.
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Jun 2022
11:25am, 23 Jun 2022
18,118 posts
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larkim
Time does seem to be the best compromise for a mixed range of abilities, it frustrates me when I'm at the club sessions and they make them distance intervals when 75s with 60s recovery for 400m for me is a quite different effort level for my wife at 120s hard with 60s recovery. But in the spirit of "better doing something than nothing" it feels OK.
I'd always steer clear of club sessions if I had a specific goal in mind anyway, unless there was a really clear fit between the objectives of the club session and my own (plus fitting it in with the schedules). My club track session is on a Monday evening, so if I'm HM or Marathon training I don't really fancy a Sunday long run and then 8x400m on a Monday evening!
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Jun 2022
11:31am, 23 Jun 2022
188 posts
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Neal
I just entered 26 minutes for a 5k time in project joker, and got interval paces of: 400m: 2m 2s, equivalent to 25:25 pace for 5k 800m: 4m 15s, equivalent to 27:36
so it seems that there is a bit of leeway for slowing down for the longer interval. I (with all the knowledge gained from reading a couple of books) would have thought that the pace should be the same (ie what is the best guess at your VO2 max pace).
Daniels suggests 1m 59s for 400m and 3m 58s for 800m.
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Jun 2022
11:37am, 23 Jun 2022
17,365 posts
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rf_fozzy
I do mixed ability sessions based on time.
But I make intervals always 1/2 time. So if we do Interval effort (as per daniels - not as per SPR definition), it'll be something like 120s intervals with 60s recoveries.
I also make the sessions always to add up to ~24mins of hard effort in the session as that is what I've always been told to target for a hard session. Or if doing by distance, about 6.4km of efforts.
So that is usually something like 16x 400m (or usually 2x(8x400)), 12x600m, 8x800m, 6x1000m or by time: 12x2mins, 8x3mins, 6x4mins.
All with 1/2 time recoveries.
With tempo efforts or repetition efforts, I'll obviously change the sessions. The former longer efforts with shorter recoveries, the latter the reverse: shorter reps and longer recoveries.
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