Going loopy

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jdarun Feb 2018 1:34pm, 8 Feb 2018 2,431 posts	0 jdarun Club run issues here. Small groups of people turning up to club runs, with a range of natural speeds (and aims) and no clear focus for the session apart from an agreed route (which may be road or fell, usually the former in winter/dark). The faster ones have a tendency to hare off into the night, waiting at junctions/gates etc but these can be some distance apart, hence the gaps are large and waits are long. I've always advocated the faster ones looping round the slower. I do this a lot when running with my wife. Yet club members don't seem to be willing to try (other than, surprise, another member who frequently runs with their partner), preferring to stand around chatting in the cold instead. To be fair some of them are probably running close to their limits in order to keep up with the leaders and therefore need a break. But certainly not all of them. With enough people we could divide into closer-matched groups but there's always going to be a bit of spread so that doesn't truly solve the problem. So I'm a bit puzzled about the hostility to the idea and wonder if anyone else can shed any light. Have you tried looping and found it didn't work for you? Or is it just so wrong so you haven't ever considered doing it? Incidentally this is not a highly serious racing group, many of us do race but we fill all spots from (near) front to back in the results.
HappyG(rrr) Feb 2018 1:59pm, 8 Feb 2018 28,261 posts	0 HappyG(rrr) I've suggested that at our club before. I've done it when I've been running off front of the group, to be sociable and because I didn't want to keep stopping and waiting. Gets you extra miles, running at the pace you want and keeping everyone together, what's not to like? It never took off. I just don't get people sometimes. Good luck with sorting it! G
Ouchling Feb 2018 2:29pm, 8 Feb 2018 334 posts	0 Ouchling I do the looping back thing when I'm with one or 2 friends if I'm feeling particularly energetic. It could be that it's very hard to track your pace and distance accurately if you're doubling back all the time. It confuses the hell out of my Garmin. Or could be that it's simply much easier mentally and physically to run straight and then stop and wait. Definitely hostility or possibly just laziness? Not sure what the solution is though. More club members until you have enough people to fill the entire route? Maybe add more structure, so that rather than just telling people to loop back to stay together, it's 'fast group is running to the junction, then jog back at your own pace to rejoin the main group. Then when everyone's back we'll send you off again.'?
Autumnleaves Feb 2018 2:31pm, 8 Feb 2018 11,889 posts	0 Autumnleaves We do it. Both at the local running group I organise (which is not a club, a social running group, with a very wide range of pace and ability). We have set points on our routes where front-runners must turn round and head to the back of the pack - runners can choose whether they turn as those running back meet them, or they can get to the muster point themselves and then turn. I am quite strict about nagging about this when it's clear it isn't happening. I do this on the grounds that for insurance purposes the run leaders need to be in touch with the group (we are often in the middle), and that stronger faster runners therefore get more of a workout. If they wish to slow down at any point, they can. The only runners exempted from looping back are those who are upping their distance for the first time - who are generally running a bit slower anyway - they are usually re-passed by the hares. I have also used it as a way of getting the stronger runners to do fartlek - by making them really pick up their pace on the way back to the group - then they tend to be glad of a bit of a breather and slot in alongside someone slower for a bit. I've also occasionally challenged the fastest to see just how much distance they can add on! I get more resistance from the slower runners, who feel guilty about people coming back for them - I have to train them not to mind as much as the others about doing it. My 'proper' club also do this for their weekly club run, which is billed as a muster run. The only time we don't really encourage it is on group long runs of 8 miles plus - it really does get to the people at the back after a while and we also tend to keep a sharper eye on what people's overall distance is. Sorry this is a long post!
jdarun Feb 2018 3:20pm, 8 Feb 2018 2,433 posts	0 jdarun Thanks for comments all. Interesting that it seems to come up against some resistance, but also encouraging that it can sometimes be made to work. Here it's mostly a case of some newbie or occasional attendee being left behind by the regulars, rather than a handful "off the front". And that's despite regular "we must stick together" noises whenever it's discussed. Last night I ran relatively slowly and still did an extra 1km compared to the basic route, which I was entirely happy with on both counts as I was due an easy recovery run. The faster runners must have been stationary for a good 10 mins in an hour(ish) run. An attempt at a loosely structured intervals/fartlek such as "race to the next junction, then jog to the back" sounds like it could be an interesting idea. The runs are already billed as "training" nights though some may change to "social" in future. For the most part I think it's just "we've never done that" rather than any genuine or reasoned objection. Actually, it turns out that some of them have done that in the past, but the habit has fallen out of use and the slower runners have drifted away...
Autumnleaves Feb 2018 3:44pm, 8 Feb 2018 11,890 posts	0 Autumnleaves Appointing muster 'leaders' also works well.
BigChiefRunningBore Feb 2018 4:08pm, 8 Feb 2018 20,607 posts	0 BigChiefRunningBore Cattle prods, swearing or any form of violent threat works down here.
Wriggling Snake Feb 2018 4:25pm, 8 Feb 2018 17,740 posts	0 Wriggling Snake Always trying to advocate looping back, works at Stockport, Marple will not entertain it, they have tail runners as sweepers, which does not work (I do it) because when very new people turn up, they get very detached from the group very quickly. I also don't see that, tailrunning, as social, as most people finish and sod off,long before the tail gets in. Go for cattle prods and looping.
LazyDaisy Feb 2018 7:06pm, 8 Feb 2018 21,402 posts	0 LazyDaisy Our evening club runs are divided into pace groups but there's often one group to cover the paces from 10 minute miles to 13 minute miles. The leader of that group is emphatic that there is to be looping back, and she insists that everyone does it, and people have just accepted that if you run in her group that's what happens. For my Thursday morning group I take a less hard line. I'm aware that some people want the breather at the re-group points, but usually I and some others do loop back (at this time of year I'd get too cold standing around!) I think it's really up to the leader of the group (and the club's committee perhaps) to set the 'rules' the group will run by.
Derby Tup Feb 2018 8:57pm, 8 Feb 2018 24,936 posts	0 Derby Tup Club runs I’ve done in past are either at social pace ie pace of slowest and or no haring off and wait before everyone is strung out OR quite structured with the pace and distance agreed beforehand. Some degree of order is needed and agreed before starting