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6 May
9:52am, 6 May 2018
12626 posts
Deslauriers - I agree Corbyn is useless as a leader. I saw Cooper mangle Rudd in the Commons Committee and Lammy destroy her in Parliament. Corbyn let May and Rudd win against him. However Cooper when she stood against Corbyn was useless in the Labour leadership elections. No clear vision, no differentiation to what went before. I didn't mind Ed M, but as leader he did worse than Corbyn and if he was in power now would still have done worse. Corbyn has shored up the barricades (electorally speaking) by bringing back some disgruntled voters, but can go no further. However a retreat to Macron/Blair style politics won't work either, that will alienate another part of the party.

Labour have a problem, a fractured broad church. Also more centre leaning parts of the part have a habit of backing wars which are anathema to a lot of members like me. Voting to bomb Syria makes me recoil from Cooper. I do not back or agree with liberal interventionism, it has failed in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya, and has made no verifiable difference in Syria (mainly because the gesture bombing has been so half-hearted). The only times you could make a case are Sierra Leone and Bosnia. Even the latter was chancey and you have a very nationalistic Croatia whose football supporters like burning nazi emblems on pitches, Link (roll over me to see where I go) and also like massacring Muslims, who were the good guys. Corbyn's strength (and weakness) has been cautious foreign policy positions (although at times he has shared platforms with totally repugnant regimes or individuals and really you wonder what he was thinking). It's difficult, as you say, and a incurious, binary worldview does not help matters. And unfortunately that's what a lot of his support does have. No easy answers.
6 May
11:08pm, 6 May 2018
17963 posts
The difference between Labour and the Tories, electorally, is that the Tories will do anything to ensure they get elected, even down to calling a ridiculous referendum.

Labour members will do anything to support, unwaveringly, their own policies, even if that means the pay are unelectable.

You can have the most noble policies in the world, but if you can't firm a government those policiers are useless.

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A place where we can debate politics and along the way tick off all these logical fallacies.

Link (roll over me to see where I go)

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