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Ian Williams - Fetcheveryone


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14 Dec
7:03pm, 14 Dec 2018
3452 posts
Part profiteering, part the extra costs of owning to rent, part the vicious circle of high prices preventing people from saving the deposit (and/or not being able to get the mortgage).

There was a proposal near here to charge 5x council tax on properties that were not occupied for a large part of the year. Voted down by the tories, no surprise there.
14 Dec
8:15pm, 14 Dec 2018
74 posts

What I said was "there's nothing wrong with Capitalism in itself" and "I'm not denying that there are inherent issues with Capitalism". I don't see those statements as contradictory - you could say the same about The NHS.

"...if you say you don’t like capitalism, you immediately become a communist..."

No, I asked what your alternative was as you'd said you "...hate..." "...the ideology of capitalism..." and asked if that alternative could be communism. You've now clarified that you'd prefer a mixed economy - that still includes capitalism though.

"...The rich poor divide is staggering in the country..."

Absolutely. For example, the need for food banks in the UK in the 21st century is (or should be) a national disgrace. But is a capitalist economy the source of that divide? Or is it Government tax and spend policy?

Or, sometimes, (whisper it) our own decisions?

I grew up in one of Glasgow's vast estates, in damp, cold social housing (ice inside the windows in winter!), with parents who would now be classed as "the working poor". I (with my brothers) was taught that if I wanted something different, I'd need to work for it. Personal responsibility? Challenge accepted.

In contrast, there was a news item last night (it may have been just in Scotland) about food bank clients, including a teenage couple with a baby, needing a parcel to get by (IIRC the item was actually covering the struggle of the food bank to source donations.) However, the question I wanted asked of the young couple was, given that you have no visible means of support, why did you have a baby? Capitalism didn't get her pregnant. Nor did consumerism. Their comparative poverty is largely a product of their own poor decision making. They chose to have a baby, leave school without many, if any, qualifications, and rely on the welfare state to support them all. Personal responsibility? Nah, not so much.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't bend over backwards to help them. However, no-one should be surprised, or blame capitalism, for the fact that they don't have the same standard of living as I do.

"...People want more and more and there’s more and more consumerism and pressures put on people to purchase things and have every last thing available, and Christmas is a shining example of that..."

I absolutely agree. However, as above, we all have and make choices. No-one is forced to get in to debt for Christmas. No-one is forced to consume. For example, I choose to make a charity donation in lieu of sending Christmas cards, don't get involved in Secret Santa gifts or Christmas jumpers as I consider all three to be just consumption for consumption's sake.

"...If you earn more, you have a responsibility to contribute more, that’s what community and society are about, helping others..."

Again, we're in agreement. I imagine I earn more than the national average and I also imagine the tax I pay is more than the national average too and I'm happy to do so. However, again, that's a function of tax policy, not a capitalist economy.

"...it depends how you are not changing your financial arrangements..."

I can assure you that both my corporate and personal financial and tax affairs are completely and utterly legal. All jobs are invoiced including VAT and that VAT is declared, irrespective of how the invoice is actually paid. And every penny of personal income is declared on my self assessment, irrespective of the source.

But, that doesn't mean that I don't employ, again perfectly legal, avoidance strategies to reduce my tax bills. Is that greedy? Or prudent? Once again, tax avoidance is a function of tax policy, not a capitalist economy.

I do not employ, in any way, shape or form, (or condone for that matter) tax evasion policies. Not even a grey area scheme.

"...And why should anyone be left behind ... that’s a by product of capitalism?"

No, it's a by product of life. Unless you intend to impose a 100% tax rate and redistribute a standard income to everyone, then there will always be "winners" and "losers", for want of a better description.

I'm trying to point out that there's a difference between a capitalist economy and Government tax and spend policy.

12:15am, 15 Dec 2018
123 posts
Poor people shouldn't have kids if they need a food bank?
I would say if one person is using food bank we need to look at our society.

Its ok for rich people to make "mistakes" because hey can pay their own way, but if we're paying for you you better not accidentally get pregnant

Don't even think of smoking a cigarette or having a beer

Imagine what the feckless scroungers could do if the avoided tax was available for them.

Bending over backwards means paying ALL your tax....just an opinion.

And Im sorry if its rude, but I have people I'm close to who visited food banks, quietly, and embarrassed, and if you knew why, I doubt you would begrudge them a packet of pasta. And yes, they have children.

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