F'Laps - Saturday 5th July
Join in with our challenge this Saturday. Run a set distance every hour until you can't run any more!Arms Like Garth - a weight-training wire
38 watchers
31 Mar
10:32am, 31 Mar 2025
52,309 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
SPR wrote: What works for you is what works for you but the high rep thing for running because low reps and relatively heavy weights will bulk you up has long being debunked. Not having read anything about weight training for years, what would be a simple summary of the current thinking then please? * Reps and sets and weights? * Concentrate on one muscle or group at a time, or deliberately mix up (functional training?) * Concentric vs eccentric? * Full range vs. limited range? * Free weights vs. machines? Just generally, tell me all your current, latest wisdom?!  G
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31 Mar
10:36am, 31 Mar 2025
44,894 posts
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Nellers
Speaking of "lean muscle mass": For reasons I won't bore you with we've just bought a set of these new-fangled bluetooth scales that claim to be able to do body fat, bone density/mass and lean mass along with just weight. £20 of Amazon, so if they're crap at least we've got some new scales. Not a problem. Anyone else tried these things? Are they accurate? Are they more/less accurate than the £100+ Garmin version? In short am I going to learn anything useful from them beyond "don't waste your money on gadgets off Amazon"? |
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31 Mar
10:38am, 31 Mar 2025
44,895 posts
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Nellers
Latest wisdom will depend on who answers @HappyG(rrr) . (That's not a dig at the lifter Fetchies, just a comment on the state of the science and the huge variety of approaches which are all to some degree successful.) |
31 Mar
10:45am, 31 Mar 2025
64,661 posts
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EvilPixie
Nellers my view on them (I have garmin ones using nectar points so “free”) The number may or may not be accurate but it’s the trend that matters |
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31 Mar
10:47am, 31 Mar 2025
44,899 posts
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Nellers
That's kinda what I'm hoping, Pix. It might not be "right" but if it's at least consistent I can see if things are changing over time.
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31 Mar
10:50am, 31 Mar 2025
64,663 posts
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EvilPixie
My scales live in the spare room come “gym” and I literally don’t move them! We have laminate flooring so if I do move them they are lined up with the “planks” so in theory I should get accurate numbers
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31 Mar
10:53am, 31 Mar 2025
47,399 posts
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SPR
If you're interested in reading well researched and thought out guidance for strength for running then I recommend reading "Strength and Conditioning for Endurance Running" by Richard Blagrove amazon.co.uk Here's the reps table from that book. The book goes into detail on this. The high rep/ low weight thing has been debunked for well over a decade but I don't believe there was a comprehensive book for endurance running till this book. |
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31 Mar
11:00am, 31 Mar 2025
47,400 posts
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SPR
Just to note, the book would expect basic strength to be the range most people work in for running unless very experienced and not moving to the maximum strength range. The explosive strength is things like olympic lifting (clean, snatch) so would be alongside.
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31 Mar
11:12am, 31 Mar 2025
23,368 posts
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Gooner
HappyG(rrr) wrote: SPR wrote:What works for you is what works for you but the high rep thing for running because low reps and relatively heavy weights will bulk you up has long being debunked. Not having read anything about weight training for years, what would be a simple summary of the current thinking then please? * Reps and sets and weights? * Concentrate on one muscle or group at a time, or deliberately mix up (functional training?) * Concentric vs eccentric? * Full range vs. limited range? * Free weights vs. machines? Just generally, tell me all your current, latest wisdom?! G There is no ideal rep range or set range, ideal overall volume is also quite variable but based on current literature (I haven't kept properly up to date since mid 2024 so not completely current potentially) is that anything from 5-20 working sets per muscle group over the 10 main muscle groups (training wise) see the best gains for most people, with the majority of people benefiting the majority of their gains within the 5-10 range. These sets should be all good, working sets with no more than 1-2 RIR. Compound exercises tend to be a more efficient way of gaining overall muscle and reaching the above volume but if an individual has specific muscle groups they wish to target then you would want to be apportioning more of your total volume towards that group with additional isolation exercises. With regards to hypertrophy, slow, controlled eccentric (eck-sen-trik) movement to a loaded, stretched position seems to be the best for gains. Think of a dumbbell bench press with 3 seconds down, 1 second hold, 1 second up ratio. This also means that exercises that don't put the target under load when stretched to full ROM are less hypertrophy inducing i.e. barbell bench press less so than dumbbell. Limited range of motion has been shown to be somewhat as effective, as long as it focuses more on the stretched part of the exercise rather than the top of the movement. They are almost always less effective in legs exercises, due to the nature of loads lifted and mechanics but they do have a place if A) you like them and B) you're working on a specific muscle group as they can sometimes allow more time under tension and the ability to get closer to true failure (think skull crushers or dumbbell lateral raises). As for free weights Vs machines, that's almost completely a both is better but either will work as long as you throw enough variety, load and stimulus into the workouts. I think that covered everything? Happy to go more in depth on anything in particular if you want. |
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31 Mar
1:14pm, 31 Mar 2025
47,405 posts
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SPR
With running specifically you want to be aiming for neural adaptations (ability to recruit more muscle fibres)/ strength, this is where lower rep range is can be more beneficial according to the research. Generally greater hypertrophy is associated with a higher rep range/ sets. The 2002 section here is along the same lines: exrx.net A recent BMJ study that concluded that doing something is the best advice given most do nothing still said loads that you can lift only 3-5 times was generally best for strength gains: blogs.bmj.com So I'm not saying you have to change but if you're avoiding low rep/ high weight because of fear of size gains then there's no need as it's generally what is prescribed for strength gains which is what you're trying to get and even if working in the in theory hypertrophy range, you need to be eating like a bodybuilder in most cases to be getting gains like they do. Personally I found low reps (5 Vs say 8-10) less fatiguing which was best for running but that's not to say that will be the same for everyone. I definitely find doing weights with running harder these days so definitely back doing what will mean you are consistent. |
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