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Apr 2012
4:08pm, 10 Apr 2012
2,416 posts
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daviec
30s faster than MP is not banking a little time, its suicide. Going 5s faster than MP is banking a little time, and still not the way to go. And I'm not sure of the training benefit of running 18 miles at MP either. Slow down.
As for the race - start off with the first couple of miles just slower than MP (+15s if you can) and then move to MP, run it steady from there and stick with it. By 20 miles you still have 10k to go, so I'd be waiting till 22/23 or maybe even 24 before I thought about speeding up a little.
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Apr 2012
5:02pm, 10 Apr 2012
108 posts
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Fitz
I'm no expert but I would advocate even pace or a very slight negative split (i.e. plan to be a tiny bit quicker 2nd half).
At my first mara last year, I went off way too fast, caught up in the buzz and the feeling that my training had gone well and I was capable... Wrong. Got to halfway in about 1:50 then died at 17m. It's taken me 5 maras to learn that my mara time is 3:55 - 4:00 and no amount of going too quick early doors is going to improve that...
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Apr 2012
5:16pm, 10 Apr 2012
13 posts
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Vicir
This looks like an interesting thread.
I've been having the same thoughts. Would really like a sub 3.50 at Manchester but have found out there's not 3.50 pacer. There is, however, a 4hr pacer. Not saying pacers are the be all and end all but did find it very helpful at at Reading Half last week as I'm historically poor at sticking at my planned pace.
I was determined to run Manc even paced (8.44m/m) but wondering now whether to stick with the 4hr pacer until halfway and then crack on at 8.35s for the second half. I'd LOVE to be disciplined enough to do this but just don't think I am. Certainly would never go off faster than MP as that's got me into trouble in the past.
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Apr 2012
5:31pm, 10 Apr 2012
7,141 posts
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Stander
I know everyone says even pacing, but I know I slow down at the end so I tend to go out slightly faster than average intended pace, put time in the bank and try not to slow too much in the second half.
Again, my approach isn't perceived wisdom but I've never got fit enough to be able to run any of my marathons without walking breaks.
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Apr 2012
5:33pm, 10 Apr 2012
7,142 posts
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Stander
Oh, and I'm crap at maintaining an even pace anyway. Only just (this last month) positively started to actively try and do so.
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Apr 2012
5:42pm, 10 Apr 2012
5,218 posts
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The Terminator
Vicir I would say it would be great to start with 4 hr pacer for a mile or two at least to keep under control in that important early part. Would though require big effort, in my opinion, to do second half ten mins faster than first half for a sub 3.50. You would need to average 8.24mm pace for 2nd half of race if doing first 13.1 miles in 2 hours (9.10mm pace)?
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Apr 2012
6:06pm, 10 Apr 2012
9,729 posts
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Ultracat
Lots of great advice, from experience no matter what the strategy on the day it will be a struggle unless you have a good endurance base and have done plenty of long runs.
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Apr 2012
6:06pm, 10 Apr 2012
17,058 posts
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swittle
Eek! 
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Apr 2012
6:13pm, 10 Apr 2012
84 posts
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Fido2Dogs
I've done my best perfs on slightly negative splits (google "marco marathon pacing" for the pace guide I swear by).
Basically,
start out a bit slower than target (average) pace for the first mile or two until you wake up,
then a little slower than target average MP for the first third,
then yer actual "mp" for the middle third,
then a bit faster than "mp" for the rest of it (cos you know you only have to hold that for a few miles and then you can STOP hooray)
That said, anyone who can do their target mp for 18 miles in training needs things to go badly wrong for them not to be able to hang on for another 8 on race day (of course in marathons things do go wrong!... but, you know, by and large....)
and
it helps to have practised this sort of pacing in "marathon pace" runs of up to 10 miles (or "mp" sections at the end of long runs) so you get used to what it feels like hanging on for dear life at the end. Lots of teeth gritting etc and "just hang on for another 1/4 mile" etc etc.
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Apr 2012
6:18pm, 10 Apr 2012
85 posts
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Fido2Dogs
To Vicr - I did a sub-4 starting in the pen next to the 4:30 pacers, then catching up the 4:15 lot in the next (iirc) couple of miles, never did catch the sub-4 pacer.
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