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Dec 2019
11:10pm, 5 Dec 2019
47,844 posts
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The Mighty Fleecy
Just try and hit the paces and if you don’t then adjust them a bit with the aim of improving. You might surprise yourself with a bit of speed training.
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Dec 2019
7:58am, 6 Dec 2019
33,554 posts
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Merry Christmas & Happy New G(rrr)
Hi Lills, I'd agree with Fleecy, but with the caveat that you need a *lot* of extra aerobic work to leave you strong enough at the end of a marathon to continue at the pace you set out at.
So doing the intervals, I wouldn't worry about being 20 or 30s down on pace. The tempos and longer runs you should hit as best you can. But I would encourage supplementing the cross training with as much extra that you can fit in as possible - a 2 hour swim won't give you as much (aerobic, cardio or specific strength) as a 2 hour run, imho. So do 3 hours swimming, not 2! And certainly not 30-40 mins! I'd say same if it was rowing or biking or anything else! Run Less - sure. But X-train Way More, if you want to Run Faster (in a long distance event like marathon)!
Good luck with Furman!  G
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Dec 2019
2:34pm, 6 Dec 2019
19 posts
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bundance
This is an interesting thread. When you talk about cardio, I think you are talking about the end result of oxygen being used by the working running mitochondria, not just faster heartbeat and heavier breathing. Therefore need to engage the running muscles in the act of running at or above target speed and not really any other way round it. Other forms of exercise are supporting the running and stability and improving blood transport in the general direction of the running muscle fibres but not entirely going to make the full benefit.
I’ve been improving my overall cardiovascular health in recent months but not running terribly often. If I want to get back to approaching pb, I’ll need to start running more and with more effort.
This thread has had a timely bump as I want to improve my 10k time. Cheers
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Dec 2019
2:52pm, 6 Dec 2019
33,570 posts
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Merry Christmas & Happy New G(rrr)
bundance, wash your mouth out!
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Dec 2019
2:54pm, 6 Dec 2019
33,571 posts
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Merry Christmas & Happy New G(rrr)
Oops, hadn't finished sentence!
... wash your mouth out - the Runners World claim behind the whole money-spinning book, was that by doing non-running cardio, you could marathon train just as effectively.
A bit like the "lose weight by doing 6 minutes a week of High Intensity Shizzle instead of actually dieting and generally doing lots of exercise a week" type short cuts!
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Dec 2019
2:54pm, 6 Dec 2019
20 posts
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bundance
What? Because I suggested running more?
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Dec 2019
2:55pm, 6 Dec 2019
33,572 posts
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Merry Christmas & Happy New G(rrr)
And I largely disagree with the Furman premise (and hence agree with yours) that "general cardio" isn't as good as "running specific cardio". Hence all my recommendations having used Furman for nearly a year, but in 2010/11. See my published works (blogs, and earlier in this thread, and race reports and training write ups!)
ANy questions, feel free to ask away! G
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Dec 2019
2:56pm, 6 Dec 2019
21 posts
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bundance
Yes, I’m refuting that after a point. It’ll only work when your base level is quite low and a lot of running will probably do more harm than good.
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Dec 2019
2:59pm, 6 Dec 2019
33,573 posts
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Merry Christmas & Happy New G(rrr)
Um, yes, in principle. Like I say, I did Furman for a year, so I've got quite a lot of actual experience of it (admittedly a study of only 1 - though there were a few others also loosely following too). I got a marathon PB with it, but I think those of us analysing it suggested it was more by my running history and down to Furman good science! G
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Dec 2019
2:59pm, 6 Dec 2019
33,574 posts
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Merry Christmas & Happy New G(rrr)
*not down to Furman good science...
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