|
Aug 2017
10:28pm, 14 Aug 2017
2,158 posts
|
Fragile Do Not Bend
Based on a sample size of one (me), I don't think you need to do a 20 miler. Not if you are just aiming to complete the marathon with no time target.
My training for my marathon was rubbish if you compare it to the classical marathon training plans, but I had the advantage of doing an event where I wasn't required to complete the marathon distance, so no pressure to push myself if I wasn't ready. Basically I ran a half 3 months before the marathon, 18 miles a month before it, and nothing else longer than 10 miles.
|
|
Aug 2017
10:47pm, 14 Aug 2017
12,358 posts
|
EvilPixie
Time on feet is good but you can get that from walking!
A few years ago I did a marathon training weekend which said 2-2:30 max and if you must do more then bookend this run with walking so 30-45mins walk then the run then repeat the walk.
Also depends on your goals.
Long distance running is more about your mental strength than fitness is my own opinion and my evidence? I just did a marathon stupidly slowly 7:31 with a longest run 3 weeks before of 6m and 12m 2.5mths before but I knew I could and would finish. Never doubted it.
I'm pretty sure that I finished because of that mental attitude as fitness wise I should not have !
|
|
Aug 2017
11:48pm, 14 Aug 2017
6,051 posts
|
The_Saint
I don't think there is anything magical about 20 miles but if anything I think further is probably better
|
|
Aug 2017
10:20am, 15 Aug 2017
11,003 posts
|
paul a
Nothing magical about 20 exactly, but running less in training for a marathon is just foolish if you plan to run the whole way at a constant pace. Personally I advocate 22 as the longest run but subscribe to the '5 longest runs adding up to a min of 100 miles' theory. For the undertrained that last 6.2 miles is a long way.
|
|
Aug 2017
10:27am, 15 Aug 2017
27,144 posts
|
HappyG(rrr)
Thanks Tim. You have clarified that your question is "...best for marathon."
As almost everyone here has said, to get your best marathon (whether that's a 2:30 or a 6:30), you need to do training that gets you close to the time that you would spend doing your race, but at a slower pace (whether that's walk/run, run at 60-90s slower or whatev). So for most people, that's some where about 15-20% slower. If you take 26.2 and do it that much slower but for your target time, you get around 21 miles.
Building up to it takes time and care. And I agree, the long run takes a lot out of most of us, so recovering from it takes a few days and affects your week's training. But none of that is insurmountable. All the plans build up to it over time. And all of them allow recovery after, either complete rest, or a couple of gentle days.
I don't think there's any substitute for long running for good marathon training. But that's only based on a dozen attempts and 3 or 4 different plan types tried. What do I know?!
Good luck.  G
|
|
Aug 2017
10:39am, 15 Aug 2017
1,778 posts
|
jdarun
20 is not particularly a magic number but as HG says 20 at a steady pace is probably somewhere close to the full marathon time on feet. I've usually been a bit under that (typically 18-19 miles max with some undulations) and been pretty satisfied with my own marathon results but the last 30 mins of those has often been a bit challenging and I plan to stretch out the long runs a bit next time. I will definitely aim to do a couple of full 20s and maybe get up to 22.
|
|
Aug 2017
10:48am, 15 Aug 2017
13,269 posts
|
Fenland (Fenners) Runner
Most, but not all people, who are against 'long' runs, have never run a marathon. I don't think the mental side of running long should be ignored. The tendency if you limit yourself to 15-miles would be to run that at close to or faster than marathon pace. So for a 4-hr marathoner, your time on feet in training might not be much more than two and a half hours. To be going into the unknown on race day and expecting those ninety minutes to be manageable is foolhardy in my opinion.
Also how to you practise and hone the nutrition and hydration for the actual day if you've never ventured closer to the time on feet of the target marathon race.
|
|
Aug 2017
12:34pm, 15 Aug 2017
27,146 posts
|
HappyG(rrr)
That's another couple of good points there Fenners - nutrition for full race time / effort and the psychological experience for full duration. Both become very relevant in your marathon.
Ironically, I think actually those who have done *more* marathons might be the only ones who could successfully (if they want) try shorter running in training. e.g. if you have done 20 marathons, and this year have run 1000 miles but only up to 15 longest, you could embark on a 12 week training plan based on short fast runs, up to max of 16 or 18 miles and maybe have a cracking marathon.
If it's your first or second marathon, I'd say a good outcome is much less likely off 16 or 18 miles longest run! But each to their own, and all that.
Like JDA, I've tended to *add* distance to longest runs in plans, based on my actual experience in races. e.g. my first 2 or 3 marathons I had the usual struggle at 20 or 22 miles. But I had only done one or two 20 plus mile long runs. For my best marathon (my 7th) I upped the number of over 20 mile runs in an 18 week cycle to 10! And I had a great last 30 mins (PB, negative split and fastest mile at 26 or 25 miles, can't remember which!) G
|
|
Aug 2017
12:55pm, 15 Aug 2017
11,819 posts
|
early bird
Watching with interest. Atm my longest planned 'long run' is 18 miles. This is because I started training too late due to OH's foot injury (I don't run alone due to epilepsy) I am cross training with 2 boot camp sessions a week and a pt session on top of two mid week short quicker runs and a 'long run'. I am not going for a time at all. I want to complete it (which I know I will unless I get injured because I'm stubborn and have done it once before) I'm doing a 'fun' marathon where there's no time pressure and we (GG and I) plan on doing fancy dress. Last 'long run' was tough but I pushed through the 'mental barrier' of my body saying it was tired and got my fastest mile in the whole run at the end.(did get some funny looks when I was chanting to myself... just focus, keep moving, that's it,you've got this, I CAN do this etc)
I am run walking ( 5mins 30 secs) to keep my heart rate down and going slowly. Question ..... that long run was 2 hours 40 mins so I know that the last 2 of the 3 planned long runs are going to be longer than 3 hours. For someone in my position is it best to cap it a 3 hours or keep to the distance? My concern is over potential injury as my mileage is ridiculously low.
|
|
Aug 2017
1:00pm, 15 Aug 2017
27,149 posts
|
HappyG(rrr)
Good effort EB. That's actually pretty quick. My long run on Sunday was 4 hours 32 minutes (22.6 quite hilly miles, 2,500 ft of climb). And my target marathon time is 3:15! So definitely "over" time for me! But I think it's all beneficial. I recover quite well (doing 2 x 5 miles today and Pilates tonight, for example). I believe this is
a. because I've been doing distance for quite a while (10th year of marathoning and ultras!)
b. I follow a sensible plan, with lots of rest/recovery
c. I do other strength work (see Pilates above etc.)
I think up to your target marathon total duration is a good goal for your longest effort(s). Build up to it. If you don't have time to build up to it, then don't do it and don't worry. As you say, mental strength will get you there! G
|
