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Dec 2013
2:58pm, 4 Dec 2013
2,540 posts
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rosehip
Is the problem with the education system at all ? One of the really big differences I've seen between here and Singapore is the attitude of parents to education. In Singapore it's still regarded as a privilege and the way to get on in life.
The more I see of local parents the more it looks like they consider school as a way of keeping the kids out of their way during the day
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Dec 2013
3:07pm, 4 Dec 2013
5,447 posts
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Tinsel Snake
Indeed, that is one view that has been put forward here
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Dec 2013
3:09pm, 4 Dec 2013
20,096 posts
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Johnny Jingles
Nigella's ex "husband". What a total twat he is.
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Dec 2013
3:13pm, 4 Dec 2013
24,402 posts
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Ring Out, Frobstice Bells
Some parents I'm sure are like that, Rosehip, but I'm not sure it's typical. I think there's a lot of parents who are fed up with political tinkering (witness Gove blaming the previous government, his opposite number blaming Gove, etc etc - they just can't leave it alone).
This article is interesting in the sense that it calls for less focusing on scores (not just PISA but Ofsted) and more on childrens' aspirations and teacher development.
http://www.theguardian.com/teacher-network/2013/dec/03/pisa-results-schools-policy-better-teachers?CMP=twt_gu#!
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Dec 2013
3:27pm, 4 Dec 2013
29,285 posts
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Hills of Death (HOD)
C*** JJ I think is the word
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Dec 2013
3:42pm, 4 Dec 2013
2,544 posts
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Christmas rose (hip)
Frobes - I think that you over-estimate the average. Maybe the Guardian reading classes are of that opinion - but not necessarily the Star readers ( or picture looker-at-ers)
I think the key word used is aspiration
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Dec 2013
3:46pm, 4 Dec 2013
24,406 posts
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Ring Out, Frobstice Bells
Rosehip, possibly, but there's a huge rump (oo-err) of parents between the Guardian chatterati and the Star, er, lookerati.
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Dec 2013
3:50pm, 4 Dec 2013
26,490 posts
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JenL
I worry about the word "aspiration" that is bandied about so much these days. Children don;t start out with any aspiration beyond getting from one day to the next without being uncomfortably hungry, thirsty, cold or miserable. It's adults that think people should "better themselves" and look down on and criticise the other adults who don't seem to want to.
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Dec 2013
4:03pm, 4 Dec 2013
20,097 posts
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Johnny Jingles
I don't think it's in anyone's interest to bring up generations of illiterates. And aspirations don't have to to go much further than wanting to give your children the armoury to make their way in the world. The world must be a bewildering place if you are illiterate and innumerate.
The ASPIRES research team at King’s conducted a survey of more than 9,000 pupils across England aged 10-11 and a follow-up questionnaire with over 5,500 of the same year group when they were aged 12-13.
They found that most children, across all social groups, aspired to professional, managerial and technical careers, with very few aspiring to skilled manual or, especially, unskilled manual, occupations.
There was little evidence of a ‘poverty of aspiration’, with young people from all social class backgrounds expressing broadly comparable aspirations, concluded the research, funded by the Economic and Social Research Council.
When asked about their parents’ aspirations, 77 per cent of those surveyed said their parents wanted them to make a lot of money; 98 per cent said their parents wanted them to get a good job; and 95 per cent said it was important to their parents that their child did well at school; with 72 per cent expecting their child to go to university, a figure which is higher than university participation rates for pupils in England, currently standing at 52 per cent.
There were, however, differences in these rates, with 91 per cent of children from families classed as having very high levels of ‘cultural capital’ – parents with university degrees, many books in the home and who regularly visit museums – saying they were expected to go to university compared to 47 per cent among those with very low cultural capital.
Similarly, among those with high cultural capital, 45 per cent aspired to be a doctor compared to 22 per cent among those with very low cultural capital, while 23 per cent of the former wanted to be a scientist against only nine per cent of the latter.
Professor Archer’s research also featured interviews with 92 children and 76 parents, which provided more detail on how family connections and approaches to helping children realise their goals might help some more than others.
Working class pupils were much less likely than those with parents with professional jobs to cite a family member’s career as an inspiration. In addition, as children grew older, middle-class families tended to ‘hot-house’ their children towards success, while also often being able to draw on work contacts, while working-class parents generally favoured a more ‘hands-off’, less active, approach, satisfied that their child should pursue any career that made them happy.
Schools are often felt to have the potential to try to mitigate some of the advantages that middle class children hold over their working class peers in terms of support for realising ambition, including by providing good careers advice.
However, the King's study found that only four of 85 pupils mentioned school careers advice as having shaped their aspirations.
Professor Archer concluded: 'There needs to be a re-think of current education policy, which focuses heavily on raising young people's aspirations. Our findings indicate that 'poverty of aspiration' is largely a myth. Future education policy should focus on levelling the playing field, providing greater support to disadvantaged young people and supporting their aspirations.
'As well as bolstering the provision of career advice in schools, consideration should be given to providing the service to pupils at a younger age, as career advice tends to focus on pupils aged 14 and upwards.'
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Dec 2013
4:19pm, 4 Dec 2013
1,031 posts
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Fellrunning
It seems to me that not every kid can grow up to (say) be a doctor. Its fine to have that as an aspiration, but its not OK to tell those who don't manage to make the grade despite giving it their best shot that they're failures. Of my three children two went to University the third didn't. All three are successful and happy in what they do - and that's the most important thing.
To me the person cleaning the operating theatre is just as important as the person wielding the scalpel. We need to get away from the idea that some things are not worthwhile. Its that or we'll be up to our ears in PHd students Polish plumbers and rubbish.
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Mundane thread
Jun 2025