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Jan 2020
5:36pm, 7 Jan 2020
2,421 posts
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Fellrunning
I said "privilege of choice".
And yes I'd venture to suggest that a successful writer who goes to a meeting in a hotel room wearing two pairs of tights for protection might have an incling of what might happen.
It's a world away from living in a sewer to avoid death squads and selling yourself for protection from the same.
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Jan 2020
5:46pm, 7 Jan 2020
2,422 posts
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Fellrunning
Although I happily add the caveat that knowing the risk doesn't in any way excuse Weinstein's behaviour. No woman should be subjected to that. It's just a matter of scale when it comes to the reaction...
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Jan 2020
6:17pm, 7 Jan 2020
18,426 posts
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Carpathius
Because some women work for large amounts of money in a very visible industry where certain people are very powerful and have control over who or what you are hired for, does not mean that their choices are any less weighted than someone else's. Choose - a hotel room meeting, very normal in the business, some risk, but perhaps the only way to break into the world or refusing and giving up a career?
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Jan 2020
6:30pm, 7 Jan 2020
2,423 posts
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Fellrunning
Again true enough. Again I reiterate that I am NOT suggesting that the victims "Asked for it".
I hope, however that I'm drawing a distinction between the world where refusing might cost you that bigger condo and that where refusing will cost you your life.
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Jan 2020
8:39pm, 7 Jan 2020
1,506 posts
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beebop
‘That bigger condo’. Really? You might think you’re not saying that victims didn’t ask for it, but you do seem to be saying that they bear a responsibility for ‘choosing’ not to walk away from their livelihood.
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Jan 2020
9:28pm, 7 Jan 2020
2,424 posts
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Fellrunning
Erm no - I'm not saying that at all. Funny how "Victims of Weinstein" have suddenly become "Victims" per se. As if I'm saying that all victims of sexual violence bear responsibility for the crimes committed against them because they failed to act on warning signs. I'd remind that I'm married to a victim of sexual violence of the vilest kind. Again, read my blogs.
Women who suffer these sort of crimes are equally victims, right across the spectrum whether they be Hollywood starlets trying to get a big break or a little Autistic girl in a cupboard, or a young woman cowering in a freezing sewer.
My issue, which I perhaps haven't articulated very well, is that the #metoo movement is a global call to arms on behalf of victims whoever and wherever they may be. It is the responsibility, in my view, of the more high profile victims to speak on behalf of those who cannot. To shine a light into some very dark places. Some of those that Weinstein committed crimes against have chosen to make it all about them, and in doing so have diminished attitudes and in some cases made it easier for Weinstein to potentially escape justice.
It's true that the experience of a victim in dependent on their frame of reference. Walking away from a lucrative career to avoid being a victim of sexual crime would, I imagine, be devastating and leave a lasting scar. As I pointed out (I believe) traumatic as that may be, it's an order of magnitude different to being killed.
As I said in the OP I have something of a bee in my bonnet about the subject right now. That's to do with the circumstances in which I currently find myself.
I regret posting now. Clearly I've given offence where none was intended. For that I apologise.
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Jan 2020
9:42pm, 7 Jan 2020
44,679 posts
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Velociraptor
I will acknowledge utter revulsion at the suggestion by a man that any individual woman or group of women who have personally suffered sexual violence have a duty to make the pursuit of a wider social justice their responsibility. No victim of crime should be under any such moral obligation.
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Jan 2020
10:03pm, 7 Jan 2020
18,707 posts
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ChrisHB
the opinion (which I hold myself) that as an old, white, anglo-saxon, protestant male, there are things it is not legitimate for to have an opinion on.
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Jan 2020
10:16pm, 7 Jan 2020
2,425 posts
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Fellrunning
Well I've disregarded my own rule about writing emails or posting or opening my mouth when I'm as angry as a very angry thing.
My ego told me that my feelings would carry some currency and I foolishly listened to it.
I've clearly embarrassed myself and caused huge upset.
I can only apologise again.
Feel free to put the boot in - I deserve it.
I'll withdraw and consider what I might do, or say, (if anything can be done or said) to put things to rights with people whom I respect very much.
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Jan 2020
6:45am, 8 Jan 2020
44,114 posts
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Diogenes
[don’t be overly hard on yourself, I suspect most would understand that the opinions you expressed came from a different place than the ignorant and dangerous proclamations of of those with superficially similar, but less nuanced views]
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Mundane thread
May 2025