The Sub 3:15 Marathon Thread
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336 watchers
Feb 2023
12:00pm, 6 Feb 2023
39,487 posts
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SPR
16 miles is only 4 miles off what I'd say is standard time on feet run for marathon. Essentially the Hanson plan is about saying what you do on the other days will get you fitter and more prepared than just doing one run IIRC. There was also some talk of the extra time on feet being disproportionately taxing for slower runners IIRC. I just looked at the plan and the weekends are essentially double. You run 10 miles, then 16 the next day three times so that 16 will be more taxing than if fresh. Same with the 13 with 10 at mara pace which comes the day after a 8 mile run. Seems a smart way to get some of benefit of running fatigued at the end without putting a massive strain on one run. I'm presuming Hanson elites wouldn't stop at 16 but this is a compromise for those that will cut something at some point from how I read it (from previous reading, would need to check any updates). |
Feb 2023
12:12pm, 6 Feb 2023
2,273 posts
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Big_G
For an example of my previous ‘generally a plodder’ comment, today’s run averaged over 10min/miles, which isn’t uncommon for me!
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Feb 2023
12:23pm, 6 Feb 2023
20,147 posts
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larkim
I tend to agree with SPR that 16 is pretty close to 20 in reality - there's nothing other than more fatigue that builds once that point is passed up to a 20 mile LR. Though for me, having read through this thread etc before I ran a marathon I was psychologically put in a place where if a plan didn't include 20 mile runs I'd be doubting it / myself. Their philosophy in the book is very much as SPR describes - the object of the exercise is to be running 16 miles on tired legs to develop the adaptations, rather than starting out on a 20 mile run "fresh". In my household all I care about is that my better half doesn't feel badly served by "only" running 16, and so far so good on that front. For her, the 16 mile runs will be 2h30-2h45 duration which is plenty enough, even though race day will be more like 4h15-4h30. First 20 of the plan for me yesterday though. Tired at about 10-13 miles but ground it out with a decent amount of consistency and OK effort levels. |
Feb 2023
12:27pm, 6 Feb 2023
18,120 posts
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KinkyS
I did 45 miles, 6000ft ascent and about a million stiles at average pace 18mm at the weekend 🤣 My Garmin took 13 minutes off my marathon prediction as a result though so it must've done some good... |
Feb 2023
2:52pm, 6 Feb 2023
5,737 posts
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Windsor Wool
totally agree larkim that the *need* to run 20 miles+ in training is something of a psychological put asserted by the 'serious' marathoning community. Oh, also make sure that 5*longest runs = 100 miles at least. I've always complied. I might try not to at some point. But, not this time! I'm not sure I'd pinpoint 20 milers as the runs that prepare me best for the rigours of the last 10k on race day, at least psychologically. Maybe the cumulative impact of the long runs is the trick here but I don't think I've ever finished a LR and felt as bad as I do a the end of a marathon. Some super-long sessions I've done have been tough but again never to the same extent. Not quite sure what to say about the 16 vs 20 debate other than to say that each time I finish my long runs I'm always pleased that they are over and wouldn't willingly add on another 30+ mins!! |
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Feb 2023
2:52pm, 6 Feb 2023
39,488 posts
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SPR
In my household all I care about is that my better half doesn't feel badly served by "only" running 16, and so far so good on that front. For her, the 16 mile runs will be 2h30-2h45 duration which is plenty enough, even though race day will be more like 4h15-4h30. Is this what is advised by Hanson? 16 miles in 2:45 is basically a race pace run for 4:30. Based on 20 miles easy being equal to time on feet for a raced 26.2, I'd be thinking it would take around 3:36 for 16 miles. |
Feb 2023
3:03pm, 6 Feb 2023
62,515 posts
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Velociraptor
Hanson does have elites running up to 22 miles for their long training runs because for them that's not a gruelling amount of time on feet even at an easy effort level. I'll be interested to see how Mrs Larkim gets on from doing Hanson properly. I've gone for "in the spirit of" rather than "to the letter of" because I'm too old to handle the combination of volume and intensity and also temperamentally unsuited to following a plan.
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Feb 2023
3:06pm, 6 Feb 2023
20,150 posts
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larkim
Yep, well spotted there SPR - was my mental maths going flawed. She'll be closer to 3hours with low 11min/mile pace. Don't think she'll be down to 13m30 miling though for 3h36. I think Hanson talk about 3 hours being about right as a maximum for getting a training benefit. She's using 9m30-9m45 as training MP (and found it easy yesterday) so adding 90s to that pace at say 11m15 pace comes out at 180 minutes or thereabouts. And there's room for her to slow down too. |
Feb 2023
3:11pm, 6 Feb 2023
2,337 posts
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Bowman 🇸🇪
"temperamentally unsuited" 😂
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Feb 2023
3:27pm, 6 Feb 2023
39,489 posts
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SPR
larkim ok cool. Obviously there's no reason why she can't go out and run minimum 16 but add a mile or two on if feeling good on one or more of those runs. Not a marathoner but I've gone out with minimum distance in mind previously which can increase if I want it to based on how I'm feeling. I'm also someone that has never followed a plan for any distance. No need to suggest that though unless distance is something she's considering. |
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