The Sub 3:15 Marathon Thread
3 lurkers |
336 watchers
Feb 2023
8:50am, 7 Feb 2023
45,502 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Well done Clare. Cracking half.  G
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Feb 2023
2:59pm, 7 Feb 2023
4,718 posts
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clare1976
Thank you all! I'm a fan of some marathon pace / effort within a plan, usually the later miles within a long run, to get the benefits of running a bit harder on tired legs. In terms of the merits of Hanson v P&D v any other plan I guess it's more about buying into the ethos of a specific plan in full rather than picking and choosing sessions. Ie if Hanson doesn't go over 16 but expects a med long run the day before and most miles at or close to marathon pace, then that's how it works - the whole piece. Topping out at 16 without the MLR the day before or doing all running slowly would not be as effective. Likewise if the entire P&D miles were run at or close to MP that would destroy most of us very quickly. But the trouble with all textbook/ online plans is that they are not tailored to individuals and just the breadth we have on here shows we all work / choose to train differently. For me it's about knowing what works for me individually, learning from past experience (good and bad!) and adapting as I go if that's needed to optimise my performance or the training benefit. |
Feb 2023
3:41pm, 7 Feb 2023
3,223 posts
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B Rubble
Spot on Clare (nice half marathon btw). We are all different and need to do what works for us. A lot of plans have been tailored from those given to professional athletes - who are completely different to us. My best marathon came from doing nine 20mile+ runs in the 15 weeks before with a longest of 25 miles. |
Feb 2023
3:52pm, 7 Feb 2023
20,158 posts
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larkim
I also think that whilst we are all different, there are probably many ways to skin a cat too - if emotionally and physically bought into a plan which had a similar level of volume and intensity to P&D I reckon the output would be indistinguishable from my default P&D option. We're a lot more than our physiques, however, so the mental side of things (enjoying the training, feeling confident in the plan, etc) absolutely needs to be nailed on too. With my mindset as it currently is, there'd be no point in my trying out a Hanson plan in the 40-60mpw range with a 16m long run limit because there'd always be that nagging doubt at the back of my mind built on years of listening to this thread about 20 milers All that said, I've been hearing (from my esteemed better half) about a book on diets recently, in which they made the point that even physiologically there is no "one size fits all"; some people can be given identical food inputs and their personal metabolism handles it in radically different ways. If that's true for fuels, then I guess it is likely to be true for exercise / training stimulus too. |
Feb 2023
4:06pm, 7 Feb 2023
39,494 posts
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SPR
Based on what that Hanson page said (would be good to see that actual research), a Hanson 16 miles or less plan wouldn't be right for you anyway, or you should break the limit. If the 20 miles isn't unduly knackering then I don't really see a downside to increasing it. I did see a page yesterday that people do that (I'm assuming it's anecdotal evidence) |
Feb 2023
4:21pm, 7 Feb 2023
4,402 posts
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Dillthedog
Top halfing Clare! For me, I’m not prepared to be too experimental in marathon training, particularly if I’m only going to run one per year. I don’t mind flunking a half, but not a marathon. So unless I’m going to run a CBA marathon, I think I would stick to something P&D ish. But then I may be missing out on something amazing…. |
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Feb 2023
4:25pm, 7 Feb 2023
20,159 posts
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larkim
I'm exactly that DTD. Pick a plan that others have done, which likely works, and which you can see yourself sticking with. 99% of the time it will work more than well enough.
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Feb 2023
4:33pm, 7 Feb 2023
62,533 posts
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Velociraptor
In Hanson's Marathon Method there's "permission" to increase overall mileage in various ways - making easy runs longer, making warm ups and cool downs longer, adding a short run on rest days, maybe (I'm not sure, I'd have to check) doing an easy second run in addition to the scheduled run. Everything apart from making the long runs longer. I agree that different training stimuli can work best for different people, and different training stimuli may also work well for the same person. My marathon PB came off 70+mpw and lots of long runs (I've listed them on another thread, possibly sub-3:30). My highest marathon WAVA, 13 years later, came off longest runs of 30k, 15 miles and 14 miles, lots of shorter races, and a reasonable amount of easy mileage. Both times I had no doubt that I was in shape for the time I needed, and both times I exceeded my expectations. I won't be in that sort of shape for London this year. |
Feb 2023
4:44pm, 7 Feb 2023
2,338 posts
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Bowman 🇸🇪
I’m pretty structured, and I like data, and use data, and often do exactly made interval sessions for instance. But I don’t like strict plans strangely enough. But I collect info and experience and broadly base my training on that. Now it’s “base training” leaning to more mileage with some speed now and then sprinkled on top. And Including Long runs. So I have a basic idea, but no set schedule for the week. Closer to the marathon I’ll be more specific. I have planned a “preparation race” of 10k and I will do do harder MP intervals and progressive long runs harder and harder in the last 6-8 week or so. Anyone else go without a proper “plan” |
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Feb 2023
4:56pm, 7 Feb 2023
39,495 posts
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SPR
Interesting Velociraptor and sounds sensible to me. This article in conjunction with the other one says the 16 mile long run isn't a magic bullet and extension is ok within the guidelines. Not for a first timer though given they are unlikely to have the experience. lukehumphreyrunning.com |
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