The Sub 3:15 Marathon Thread
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336 watchers
May 2023
3:12pm, 17 May 2023
21,122 posts
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larkim
I've done similarly sub-3 pace marathon pace runs (e.g. see this section fetcheveryone.com/t-16524558 which was part of a 17 mile run) but even though I was faster then I still don't think I would have considered a sub 3 attempt off it because although it's nice to know I could run a sub 1:30 half as a training run, I still don't think I have enough HM pedigree to trouble the 2:59:59 times. But I do also have half marathon PBs to look back on to help inform that too; if I was you, I'd definitely want to add a solid sub 90 (probably sub 84) to my palmares before I thought of even going close to sub 3, even if I could nail sub 3 pace in training. Maybe that sounds unfair, and only you can judge you - your 3:16 marathon last year was a perfectly executed run, with a very similar HR profile to mine when I feel I've run marathons well (i.e. stable for 20+ miles and then gradually increasing whilst pace remains consistent in the last 10k or so). But it was a big leap to go from that to sub 3 without a nailed on shorter race distance performance to correspond to that improvement; |
May 2023
5:04pm, 17 May 2023
46,699 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Took me 5 years. Took Bazo 10 to get from sub 3:15 to sub 3:00 larkim. Bowman is younger of course!  G
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May 2023
5:41pm, 17 May 2023
2,672 posts
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Bowman 🇸🇪
larkim Sounds reasonable for sure, i'm usually so careful, and tries to over do stuff to be sure i can deliver on it. But in this case i misjudge for sure, Not that i now think i wouldn't be able to do a low 3h marathon, that i'm still sure of! But i shouldn't have gone for a set target pace of 4:13 wich is 2:57:55 And no other plan, and no thought about the heat. HappyG(rrr) i'm not that young, and i don't think i have the strength to do this for 5 years, so it has to be sooner..
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May 2023
5:42pm, 17 May 2023
46,702 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Well, my 5 years to get from 3:15 to 3:00 was 10 years ago. So, never say never! I'd like to keep going for about another 30 years or so...! G
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May 2023
5:50pm, 17 May 2023
3,130 posts
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tipsku
I'm a similar type of runner compared to Bowman. My 10k and half times aren't very impressive, a 44:37 and a 1:41:30 in the 6 months before the sub 3:30 marathon. Most people say that you need a 1:36 or 1:37 half to convert to a 3:30 but I did it without going fast in a half. I'm not very good at short, fast races and I know that. I beat a woman with a sub 20 5k runners in the marathon by 2 minutes, while my most recent benchmark is a 22:15 or thereabouts. I'm nearly a minute off my PB of 21:20 right now. I did a half in 1:45:47 8 weeks out and my HR was pretty low for that, even lower than in the marathon itself. That's when I know that I had a shot at it. I raced 10 times in the 6 months before the marathon, from 5k to half, had a couple of good races but also some that were disappointing. I learned more from the bad ones. I think I got some mental resilience from them that helped me through rough patches in the marathon. So I would definitely recommend racing more to get used to having good and bad days but I wouldn't read too much into the times I run. 5 weeks before the marathon, I had a shocker with a 46:15 in a 10k which was even short, probably would have been a 47:30 min effort over the full distance. The marathon is as much mental work as it is physical work. I still believed that I could pull off the 3:30 despite being so slow there, 7:45 pace in that 6 mi race vs. 7:57 MP. It was just a bad day in hot weather. I tried to put that behind me as soon as possible but I learned that I needed to simulate hot weather running in training before the big race to be able to react to that on race day. When the sun came out in the second half, I didn't freak out, I just kept going. |
May 2023
5:53pm, 17 May 2023
2,111 posts
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auburnette
Poking my head in here to say that MP session was really impressive and definitely indicative of fitness Bowman 🇸🇪 but possibly a bit close to the race itself? I had a look at some of the higher mileage Pfitz plans (he's my guru) and even on the very highest mileage plan he doesn't have strenuous MP sessions less than a month out from the race. I wonder if that was a factor, it's a lot of quality and two weeks is pretty close to the race.
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May 2023
5:57pm, 17 May 2023
3,131 posts
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tipsku
Bowman 🇸🇪, that 4:13 was probably a tad too fast. In marathon running, even 5 seconds per mile faster for the whole 26.2 could be too much (about 3 seconds per km). Just that little per mile or km makes a difference of over 2 minutes in the finish time. I know from experience that going for a goal time and nailing it hinges on the fine margins. I've missed out on the 3:30 several times by a couple of minutes even though I may have been physically capable of running it. I just got some things wrong and it didn't happen. It's learning process. |
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May 2023
6:01pm, 17 May 2023
3,132 posts
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tipsku
PS: auto complete struck again in the first comment above (5:50 pm). It should say 'a woman with a sub 20 min 5k run' in the first paragraph, not runners. I should type longer comments on my laptop, not on my phone.
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May 2023
6:57pm, 17 May 2023
2,673 posts
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Bowman 🇸🇪
tipsku yes i will try to race a bit more maybe. Might do some good. And about the times and what’s indicative to what might be possible, I never get it. It’s so big of a span of what you “ have” to do and “can’t do”. I listen to a podcast, Swedish unfortunately, where two guys trying to get under 3h over a couple of years, The interview elite and sub elite runners and so on, and the “tips” or training regimes are incredibly different, some guys/gals maxing out at 40-60km per week before they “manage” to go sub 3, having done two “long runs” during the six week before of maybe 20-25k, and giving advice accordingly like it’s the way of success. Not having any thoughts of realizing it might be a talent for them too. And vice verse. I have for a long time before believed that we humans mostly are the same genetically and can accomplish similar things, as long as we do the job, but have realized that there are huge differences in body composition and everything else. Anyway. Maybe that’s why I also still thinks some of my training that has been really up there was enough for some good stuff. Not only cus if the podcast, but overall comparison. Ops, it became a long thought:) |
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May 2023
7:00pm, 17 May 2023
2,674 posts
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Bowman 🇸🇪
Bowman 🇸🇪, that 4:13 was probably a tad too fast. In marathon running, even 5 seconds per mile faster for the whole 26.2 could be too much (about 3 seconds per km). Just that little per mile or km makes a difference of over 2 minutes in the finish time. I know from experience that going for a goal time and nailing it hinges on the fine margins. I've missed out on the 3:30 several times by a couple of minutes even though I may have been physically capable of running it. I just got some things wrong and it didn't happen. It's learning process. Bowman 🇸🇪, that 4:13 was probably a tad too fast. In marathon running, even 5 seconds per mile faster for the whole 26.2 could be too much (about 3 seconds per km). Just that little per mile or km makes a difference of over 2 minutes in the finish time. I know from experience that going for a goal time and nailing it hinges on the fine margins. I've missed out on the 3:30 several times by a couple of minutes even though I may have been physically capable of running it. I just got some things wrong and it didn't happen. It's learning process. Yes it probably was, especially for the heat. But I did run some massive mp sessions in 4:09, just to see that I had some over capacity as well. But yeas over all, smaller steps
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