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Sep 2017
3:43pm, 25 Sep 2017
3,930 posts
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clare1976
I'm trying not to be disappointed with my time from yesterday because I paced it well and ran hard to the end, but if you'd told me a week ago I'd have an 'ideal' race with even pacing and a 1 min positive split, I'd likely have hoped the time would be more akin to 3:23 than 3:28, with mile splits closer to 7:40 than in the 7:50s....
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Sep 2017
3:44pm, 25 Sep 2017
4,828 posts
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chunkywizard
So here's my comparison.
Chester 2016 69.54km/week 5:18/km av. - predict 3:23:07 actual 3:24:04 (pretty accurate!)
Abingdon 2017 76.65km/week 5:30/km av. - predict 3:25:15
The difference for me is the Chester build up had no structured speed work in it, which P&D obviously has. I'm averaging slower because I'm working harder at the Vo2Max/ Tempo/ MP sessions (which actually don't affect the average pace as they are over short distances and the average is swayed by the long runs mainly).
It'll be interesting to see what I run at Abingdon!
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Sep 2017
3:52pm, 25 Sep 2017
2,831 posts
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larkim
clare - in anticipation I feel your pain! The outcome I most fear is a non-detonating 3:18 or so.
I don't know how much you stuck to your HR plan, or whether you kept a sneaky eye on pace too, but if you did just stick to the HR then I suppose that's the downside - the time will be what it will be.
And hey, if Eliud Kipchoge can't break the WR, and Bekele and Kipsang drop out, it was clearly not "ideal" racing conditions 
I won't patronise you with "nothing to be disappointed with" - you can only feel what you feel. But I'd accentuate the positive - you executed what you wanted to execute perfectly, and equally I'm sure there are things that you'll have learned for "the next time"!
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Sep 2017
4:12pm, 25 Sep 2017
27,440 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Conditions must have been a factor a bit clare? As larks says, they say the elites were a min or so down on their hopes partly due to the conditions. Doesn't that translate into 3 - 4 mins for us mortals? I don't mind rain or heat much, but I hate a head wind. So weather would def affect me.
Right larks, no it wasn't an offer of a personal pacer. I'm afraid I don't have enough confidence in my own ability to hit 3:14:59 to offer to pace someone else to it! Sub 4, I'd be happy to offer, but that's not much use to you.
No, I was just going to say (what I expect you already know, but you did give 2 alternatives in your post).
To get best from your race you have to target even splits. This is always +/- 1-2 mins (that's just tolerance, +/- 2-4 seconds per mile. No one can say they can get that bang on.) So if you believe you are in sub 3:15 shape (which you are and you do!!) , and allowing for a course measuring 26.4 (because there is always that chance and you don't want to miss things by seconds so make it an even 3:14, that gives a pace of 7:21.
So I'd be (and I will be, cos I'm going for same time as you. Promise not to shout at you until the end though, if I catch, which I won't, if you follow this pacing advice...!)
1-15: 7:20 (in practice this prob means 7:15 - 7:25 on your watch)
15-18: try a *tiny* bit quicker - say 7:1x i.e. 7:10 - 7:19, but not 7:00 or 6:5x
19-22: Depending on how that felt either keep it going at 7:1x or drop back to 7:20 if it felt too hard.
23-glory: doesn't matter what the pace says, just keep running as consistent and smooth and hard as you can!
So that gets you:
A - if you go to 7:10s at 15 and it feels good and you keep it going, dropping back to 7:20s towards end, around 3:12 or less.
B - if you try 7:10s and it feels too much and dial back to 7:20s, slowing to 7:25s at end 3:13 and a half
I would guard *against* trying to do 7:15 any time before 15 miles. Before 15 miles everything will feel easy. Your race doesn't start getting hard until you get to 16, 18 or more. 1-15 is not the time to try and "bank time" or any such malarkey. Imho!!
Btw, you're gonna smash it! G
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Sep 2017
4:22pm, 25 Sep 2017
2,832 posts
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larkim
That's a great structure - just the sort of "previous" experience that a first timer can hang their hat on.
My only overlay onto that would be the course. Baz will have a better idea than I do from experience on the route, but I'd reckon 15-18 miles are actually some of the less straightforward ones to push on a bit. However, when I did a longer run across most of those miles a few weeks back, I did surprise myself with pace improvements at that stage, so providing I don't blow anything on the (mild) climb from the bridge over the river at Holt trying to hold a 7:10 mile there...
Having said that, I'd be over-egging things to say the course has any tough sections in all honesty so I'll lock that advice away and hold onto it. If I put following the 3:15 pacers to one side, that's the sort of approach I might have planned to take, though I suppose the advice on a bit of a push at 15 is perhaps ahead of where I might have tried that. I might just modify that approach to defer the push until after crossing back into England, but the overall structure sounds perfect!
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Sep 2017
4:31pm, 25 Sep 2017
27,442 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Goodo larks. Yes, even hold on later for the push. And you need to flex in some ways and be disciplined in others e.g. flex if it feels ok at 16, but terrible at 18, just dial back a bit. If 19 feels fine, push on a bit. But disciplined not to push on too much.
The other thing for me is have confidence that it can "come back". If it feels tough at 19 and you're thinking 7 to go, it's all blown up, don't! Dial back fractionally to 7:25 for a few minutes, take a gel, grab some water, have a chat or a smile with someone, check yourself again 3 mins later. Feel same? Feel better? Push back up to 7:20. It's amazing how the feelings ebb and flow. It's part of the fascination. But never let go completely.
You want to do this, you can do this, you will do this.
Re. the undulations - thanks for the tip. I am ok with gentle ups and downs. (Loch Ness marathon had a few! Even though more downs than ups, the ups there were, were quite cruel!) Again, flexible (when you have a short, gentle uphill, expect the pace to drop) but disciplined (don't despair if you've lost 20s up a hill, it will come back, there will be a recovery somewhere. But also don't thrash the downhills either!)
All of the above goes out the window after 22 miles - then you're into just heart and soul and push with everything you've got and imagine there's a lion chasing you or a bag of £1M if you can fill every minute with 60 seconds worth of distance run etc. Raaar! G
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Sep 2017
6:25pm, 25 Sep 2017
379 posts
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Oscar the grouch
Definitely agree re the 18 mile 'dip' and recovery. I had a bad patch at 18 yesterday but was back to target pace until 22 which was great as that's where I have fallen apart before. What turned me around yesterday was just knowing that I felt ok. In the past I have been spent or close to by 18-20 miles. I probably could have fuelled the last 6 miles better but I was running on guts by the last 5k (aren't we all)
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Sep 2017
6:45pm, 25 Sep 2017
11,835 posts
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Bazoaxe
gosh, lots of posting today - shame I am busy at work.
Re Chester, when I ran 3:09 in 2015, it was c 80s negative split. I sped up from halfway and was fine to about 22. IIRC it updulates more from about 20 and thats the harder stretch with the tough hill at 24 and you need something in the tank for the last 1/4. Given the course profile I would suggest its maybe more even pacing than picking up the pace
FWIW when I ran with the 3 hr pacers in 2014 then went through half in 1:29:20 but slowed a little in the harder last quarter and nailed the sub 3.
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Sep 2017
6:47pm, 25 Sep 2017
11,836 posts
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Bazoaxe
oh, and in 2014 I pushed ahead of the 3 hr group at 15 and that was my mistake as they caught and passed me around 21/22
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Sep 2017
6:50pm, 25 Sep 2017
380 posts
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Oscar the grouch
Love that new word Bazo. Updulates. I am stealing it.
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