The Sub 3:15 Marathon Thread
3 lurkers |
336 watchers
Nov 2023
5:01pm, 22 Nov 2023
3,085 posts
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Big_G
Loch Ness is great and I wouldn’t say it’s an ‘unfair’ course, personally. That Revel course is in a different league compared with Loch Ness, it appears to me.
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Nov 2023
6:16pm, 22 Nov 2023
27,348 posts
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Dvorak
How much is the altitude a confounding factor in the US races? Running at effort at 2000m (even if only for part of it) is not trivial if it's not what you are used to. As for the end result, I'm thinking "Good news - you've qualified for Boston! Bad news - you can't walk properly for three months". |
Nov 2023
6:19pm, 22 Nov 2023
43,303 posts
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SPR
The Loch Ness profile looks ridiculous! Surely it's the muscle damage from the downhill that causes the issues there?
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Nov 2023
8:28pm, 22 Nov 2023
48,583 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Totally SPR - quad mashing first half with sharp wee downhills as well as uphills. Then two wee climbs as 18 and 20 miles. It's no easy ride. Pb able though!  G
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Nov 2023
8:28pm, 22 Nov 2023
48,584 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
And beautiful course too. G
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Nov 2023
8:54pm, 22 Nov 2023
3,086 posts
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Big_G
Dvorak, not sure about the altitude. That’s a good point. The fact many use it for a BQ though, implies they at least think it’s fast though. Loch Ness is still the most broken I’ve been after a marathon (not injured). I did a comparable time to what was usual for me, and I got over the hills feeling okay, but the last 5K (which aren’t especially challenging) was a real struggle. Great race though. There’s something I really like about a point to point course. I’ve done Loch Ness, City to Sea, Nice-Cannes and Boston and I really like that type of course. |
Nov 2023
2:14pm, 23 Nov 2023
3,566 posts
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tipsku
In terms of the intervals, what was Garmin's description? I know that Garmin can get speeds wrong sometimes so description might be better to understand what it's trying to get at. VO2 Max into sprints with 1 min recovery between all seems intense though. Threshold into VO2 Max seem more manageable (or somewhere in that range). With that type of session, I'd expect the recovery would get slower as the speed increases to manage the session. Was there any recovery guidance? SPR, I checked the guidance again. My goal pace for the 10k is 7:05 for a sub 44. The first set of intervals is 6:10-6:30 pace, which is in the range of my VO2 max pace. According to the McMillan running calculator, it's 6:16, based on my half last month, but that could be +/-5 seconds, I just take it as rough guidance. So I'm supposed to run 5x 1 minute at that pace with 1 minute jog recoveries. The following 4 intervals are 5:25-5:45 with the same recovery but I walked those and still couldn't keep the pace for the given interval time. Garmin just says that stride workouts focus on fast leg turnover so your goal is a cadence range (150-200 spm last time, 220-230 next time!). For the sprint workouts it says 45-90 seconds faster than your goal pace, which would be 6:20 and 5:35 respectively, the middle of the pace ranges given in the workout above. Jog or walk the recovery. It doesn't say what the benefits or the intended training effect are, these are my interpretation based on my fitness level. The slower pace range coincides with my VO2 max so I treat it as such and I have no problem with the workout structure. It's challenging but doable. The faster pace range is closer to all out sprinting for me, therefore I think I should have longer recoveries. When Garmin gives me proper sprint workouts, not as a part of a plan but their daily suggestion, I get 15 seconds sprints (around 4:35-4:55) with 3 minute walks! When I have longer sprints, it's 30-45 seconds at 5:30-5:50, with 2 minutes to recover each time. So I don't quite understand the short recoveries in the Garmin plan for longer intervals at the same pace when the generic sessions are structured differently. |
Nov 2023
2:58pm, 23 Nov 2023
22,683 posts
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larkim
Those intervals at 5:25-5:45 look insane if they are linked to a sub 44 10k pace. When I do P&D properly I do strides at the end of some of the easy runs which (in the way I do them) end up being sprint repeats really - accelerate to max velocity with good form up to about 25m and then sustain for 75m or so. Even then I'd be barely getting under 5:00 pace, and that's in the context of me being likely in 39:xx form or faster at the same time. The thought of maintaining something like 4:50-5:00 pace for a minute would be way off what I thought I could do; my all time 100m PB is only just over 17s which is about 4m35 pace. |
Nov 2023
3:07pm, 23 Nov 2023
6,822 posts
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Oscar the Grouch
As a 43-45 minute 10k man, I agree with Larks for the most part. However, if I think about it, my 400 repeats would be in the region of 90 seconds (so 6 minutes per mile), so perhaps the paces for a minute aren't as far off as they felt instinctively.
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Nov 2023
3:41pm, 23 Nov 2023
1,722 posts
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Daz Love
I wouldnt worry too much about hitting that pace over 1min as long as you are really getting the legs moving quicker than you would normally. I am exactly the same as Larks has put for Strides when doing them. Mine are sprints as well!!!! |
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