The Sub 3:15 Marathon Thread
7 lurkers |
336 watchers
Nov 2010
4:56pm, 4 Nov 2010
1,630 posts
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chirunner
"I think basically Tizer and I are suggesting (and following the advice ourselves) a pretty faithful sticking to the training detailed in the Hadd document" there is a hadd document linked to the hadd thread here that i understand is hadd phase 1 basebuildinh and there is another document out there that relates to hadd phase 2a/b for specific training prior to a marathon - having devoted a lot of time to the original document a while back i am spending a bit of time reflecting on hadd phase 2. "Question: You .....get to the end of Hadd's Phase I and want to know what to do next. Go and race a 5k (road or track, it don't matter). Give it an honest effort on a decent route (but don't get too anal finding the fastest 5k route on the planet, you'll race often). After Phase I, we need to split you into either (and most usually) Phase IIa, which is aimed at getting you fit to race anything from 5k-HM. Or you could go into Phase IIb (in some cases, and only if certain conditions are met) which is Marathon-mode (only)." from the phase 2 article. This second article has some interesting comments to make about interval training that seems quite linked to the sorts of intervals i am doing so it caused me to sit up and pay attention 
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Nov 2010
4:57pm, 4 Nov 2010
1,631 posts
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chirunner
I meant to add has anyone considered the second hadd document in much detail yet?
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Nov 2010
6:02pm, 4 Nov 2010
2,226 posts
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Bazoaxe
ouch. my head hurst with all this theory and the slightly different takes on it all ! in summary though, although I dont formally train to HR, what I am running is not a million miles away from what is expected from HR training. I take tizers point re the saturday to friday switch, but thats done for personal reassons ,i.e. I like to chill out on a friday after a long week...although P&D will have me changing that soon as I switch to their plan. What I plan to do is re-read P&D this weekend and consider following their plan and HR advice rather than the paces that I tried to follow last year |
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Nov 2010
6:13pm, 4 Nov 2010
2,227 posts
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Bazoaxe
one other challenge re HR My HRM spikes in the first mile and I almost always record an HR for that Mile around 80-85% WHR when thats wrong...it settles down thereafter but skews data. Ive taken to wearing the HRM for a while before going out and this aftten but doesnt always help...so that first mile running has to be by feel Do others have this and how do you work around it ? |
Nov 2010
6:15pm, 4 Nov 2010
195 posts
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Rod the plod
There is an awful lot of analysis which is hurting my head too! All very interesting and useful though. I remember reading a quote from Haile Gebrselassie a while ago when a journalist ask him some detailed questions about his heart rate, whether he monitors it, and how high it went when he ran 2.03 at Berlin. He basically said something along the lines of 'I don't pay too much attention to my heart rate when running. I'll know I've gone out too hard when it stops!!! Not an approach I'd necessarily advocate - but quite a funny comment from argubly the most talented distance runner ever! |
Nov 2010
6:53pm, 4 Nov 2010
2,136 posts
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paul the builder
Baz - you should be able to fix the false readings in the first mile (and that's what they are, it won't be true - unless you have a heart condition of some sort. In which case one of the thread Doctors will be along shortly). Make sure the strap is good and tight. Proper tight. And give the contacts a good old slathering of saliva just before you put it on.
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Nov 2010
7:22pm, 4 Nov 2010
696 posts
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Tizer
Chi, I've never really looked at the Phase II stuff. I really just built a marathon plan using the mileage from P&D and the HR zones from HADD. What I will be doing this time round is bringing in some faster sessions but I've not thought too much about what they will be yet. Did find this when I looked for the Phase II info and it's pretty interesting reading. Get yourself a cuppa first though... letsrun.com Think it's safe to say that there are loads of ways to get the results you are looking for. I'm currently a POSE runner that uses HADD and P&D. Im sure if something else comes up that sounds interesting I'll give that a go a well
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Nov 2010
8:14pm, 4 Nov 2010
2,970 posts
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LouLou
Gosh - worked late to night so just catching up. Lots to think about and will probably summarise my thoughts/ plans etc in a blog. I do appreciate the opinion of others and like a good debate - beauty of this game is training is tailored to the individual. I'm still relatively young - almost 27 - so hopefully got a few years to get to peak for marathoning anyway but impatient to get success. |
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Nov 2010
8:15pm, 4 Nov 2010
1,634 posts
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chirunner
Tizer i have read this about 10 times to work out how on earth it relates to my training. His fundamental point is that whilst the vast majority of alll mara training is very similar with the diet of LSR/tempo/intervals etc there is an opportunity to make a vital distinction in one element of the training relating to how you undertake tempo runs. His view is that chaps who come from a shorter distance eg sprints to I guess 800-1500m background are far better suited to using fast short intervals for the tempo runs (with non resting stops between them) rather than the more standard fare of one pace eg 8miles@7mm etc. i have not seen this explained before with a loads of experiments and real life examples including a story of 2 portugese running champions who ran at the same paces but had very different training needs in terms of tempo runs..."For example; Mamede did not like to do hard tempo runs like Lopes, but he was able to run lots of 400m intervals and have exactly the same effect on his LTP that Lopes had on HIS LTP / MaxLaSS when he did tempo runs". There are pages of notes as to why this is the case but probably too technical to go into here... Kind of got me thinking, and as ever you read on fetch there are many ways to "skin the cat" to get a result. I am currently doing intervals on 4 days of my training week (2 running/2XT) on the basis of a plan from my coach and when I challenged my coach about it today he confirmed that as soon as i mentioned i was from a sprinting background he had tailored the plan for me in this direction if this makes any sense? |
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Nov 2010
8:40pm, 4 Nov 2010
2,228 posts
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Bazoaxe
Just back from 10 miles in the wind...first 3 were easyish at 8mm (HRM didnt play up tonight and I was below 70% WHR) then desided to have 5 at a quicker pace, but not really pushing, so was laergely sub 3hr mara pace apart from a couple of splits where I had hills and wind. In those 5 miles my HR was pretty constant probably around 80%, nefore 2 easier miles to finsih. Overall 10 miles at 7:29mm pace avge with avge HR of 73%. Last week I did 10 miles with 2 x 2mile HMP which avged7:30mm pace, but the HR was an extra 3% higher. I know they are not directly comparable runs, but the stats suggest a slightly faster pace for lesser effort.... |
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