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Jul 2017
6:28pm, 8 Jul 2017
130 posts
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glucotab
Teknik- I think my print may have to be virtual/intuited all told. But I do get the strong concept of not skewing with extended HR spikes or depressions - where an average doesn`t tell the real story as you indicate.
Can I ask how far your pace improved on 84%?
Also, an unrelated question in some ways cos not about how to train effectively, did you stick with this in a race or tilt at a faster pace without an HRM?
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Jul 2017
6:36pm, 8 Jul 2017
1,379 posts
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Teknik
Gluco - re pace improvement, if you mean 84% vs 83%, that's 2 beats per minute, so probably 6 secs per mile? I tend to stick at 83% and earn pace improvement at that same HR - probably 20 to 30 secs per mile over a 4 month plan.
I wear a HRM for a race, but don't look at the HR stuff - just record it for later review. In a marathon, I'll go out at the pace I achieved in the last few subLTs.
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Jul 2017
11:07pm, 8 Jul 2017
350 posts
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Brunski
Teknik, how did you setting off at that HR go? I'm not knocking it as an approach but noticed your relation between 1/2 marathon and marathon PB times doesn't look particularly tight.
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Jul 2017
12:03am, 9 Jul 2017
1,380 posts
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Teknik
Brunski yes my Hm/M pace comparison is awful, but significantly better than it used to be. I did 6 marathons off a 1:43 half and failed to beat 4 hrs with all of them.
Then I discovered this thread. My weekly mileage went from about 35 mpw to 70 mpw and I managed a neg split 3:48 then a disappointing 3:34 (I was knocked over at mile 22 and didn't really recover). I did however shave 9 mins off my Half time without any tempo or speed work.
Hadd says Phase I ends when you get to a MP of 5kp +45 (min per m). I'm miles away from that but I now know this training, if you follow it through, does work.
Several beers later I'm looking for a reason to get up and do that 18 miler tomorrow at 28C here... 
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Jul 2017
8:26pm, 9 Jul 2017
351 posts
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Brunski
Nice improvements Teknik. Knocked over? Ouch! Hope they were apologetic, or you caught them and tripped them later 😉
I think, without doubt, following Hadd or similar polarised training allows you to up the mileage. I had a go following it but had a dodgy wrist based HRM so never got into the sub LT running properly. It did help me add mileage, improve my pace at lower HR, and up my aerobic base.
Now I sort of do what I want, basically running 3 times a week a bit harder, and the rest at low HR (under 75% usually).
I'll be taking a look at your plan, and others when I get back from holiday (which'll be 8 weeks before York) to see what I can take from the last 8 weeks of that to target my long runs to getting marathon ready. Until then it'll be 75% MHR and just increasing distance bit by bit.
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Jul 2017
8:29pm, 9 Jul 2017
352 posts
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Brunski
Did you make your run by the way?
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Jul 2017
8:35pm, 9 Jul 2017
1,381 posts
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Teknik
Brunski sounds good to me. And no, too hot again here - I'll get it done Tuesday hopefully in the rain !
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Jul 2017
8:19am, 10 Jul 2017
33,599 posts
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Hills of Death (HOD)
I get so confused with different theories is this the one where you do up to 50 miles at easy pace I.e below 75%. Then you introduce the time trials and the tempo runs ?
Doing off memory cause I wanna test my memory 😉
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Jul 2017
8:51am, 10 Jul 2017
1,382 posts
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Teknik
HOD yes get up to 50mpw at sub75% maxHR, then intro one, then two, sub-LT runs.
I wouldn't bother with the time trials - they sound very scientific but you get all the info you need from the subLTs and the improvements you see in your easy pace.
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Jul 2017
9:08am, 10 Jul 2017
11,548 posts
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Bazoaxe
I am starting to see the benefits of last autumns HADD phase.
Its odd because I saw the very same back in 2013/14 when I last gave HADD a proper shot. Training saw great improvements, then a plateau and then a slight regression. The marathon campaign then gave mediocre results, but the training for and execution of the autumn marathon c12 months after HADD then showed a decent step forward.
I am not yet at the Autumn 17 marathon yet, however yesterdays 17 with 10 at MP produced the best stats I have seen for an MP run in terms of pace and Heart rate
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