The Environment Thread :-)
62 watchers
2 May
7:35am, 2 May 2025
10,081 posts
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Winniefree
The advent of ‘extreme day tripping’ where you fly to Spain or somewhere just for the day, for a laugh, is infuriating. We’re trying to do more by train but that does require more money and crucially more time.
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3 May
3:36pm, 3 May 2025
33,430 posts
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macca 53
We aren’t (usually) short if time so do as much of our travel by train as we can and it’s usually fairly competitively priced. Our car did less than 2000 miles last year (and may well do even less this year).
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3 May
5:52pm, 3 May 2025
22,872 posts
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Chrisull
Just been across Europe to Prague and back by sleeper train. Eurostar remains amazing. Sleeper needs updating, but I applaud it - straight through Antwerp, Rotterdam, Amsterdam, Berlin, Dresden to Prague (only started a year ago) in old rolling stock. Reasonably priced and you actually get to see Europe. In total agreement with G and MaT.T. Also Curly is fine, absolutely these once in a lifetime flights are not the problem. It's extreme daytripping and constant short haul trips.If only our rail service was as cheap and fast as some of the European ones, as it should be. Also a reminder as a whole the tech industry is a far worse carbon emissions emitter than the aviation industry. I can dig out the figures from SW Green Tech who talked about them at a talk I attended at Pixel Pioneers 3 years ago. Can only imagine AI has made it way worse. |
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3 May
8:50pm, 3 May 2025
33,431 posts
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macca 53
[was the train full @Chrisull ? It’s one of the trips we are thinking about later this year]
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3 May
11:26pm, 3 May 2025
18,733 posts
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jda
Well everything is a problem, carbon is carbon and the climate system doesn't care whether a tonne of fossil CO2 came from a long haul flight, gas central heating or a turbine generator to charge your EV. We all draw our own lines in different places according to situations and opportunities, and I certainly have my own weaknesses.
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4 May
8:01am, 4 May 2025
52,656 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
We need to cut down everything. I don't, I'm rubbish - ready meals instead of cooking from scratch (plastic packaging, intensive food manufacturing processes), driving a lot of miles (should use bike or bus - it's hard in a rural location, but hard is a poor excuse), lots of unnecessary activities - gym, movies, restaurants (again, one could cut out all "pleasures" but I don't.) And I work for a large financial organisation in tech! What's the alternative to tech @Chrisull as an individual ? Just to not have any? Very hard nowadays. And where does tech's CO2 footprint come from? The mining of minerals, the energy in manufacture or the electricity in running it? If it's mostly electricity running then if one were using entirely renewable electricity, would that be CO2 free / low? Cheers  G
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4 May
8:20am, 4 May 2025
8 posts
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TooScaredToPost
2. Don’t try to ‘win’ It sounds strange, but often the best way to be persuasive is to stop trying to persuade people. Trying to turn the whole room into die-hard climate activists before lunch sets you up to fail, and sets everyone else up to have a terrible time. Rather than playing the advocate working to ‘get people on board’, be the moderator: the one who gives people a chance to explore the issue in their own way, without feeling judged or pressured. And this isn’t just about changing minds and inspiring action. In an age of rising climate anxiety, creating this space can really help people’s well-being. And remember you don’t have to pack everything into one conversation. It’s better to have an interesting, friendly exchange that leaves the door open for next time, than to rush to a solid conclusion. |
4 May
8:31am, 4 May 2025
26,248 posts
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3M
That's a good policy for most difficult conversations, @TooScaredToPost.
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4 May
8:39am, 4 May 2025
52,657 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
TooScaredToPost wrote: 2. Don’t try to ‘win’ It sounds strange, but often the best way to be persuasive is to stop trying to persuade people. Trying to turn the whole room into die-hard climate activists before lunch sets you up to fail, and sets everyone else up to have a terrible time. Rather than playing the advocate working to ‘get people on board’, be the moderator: the one who gives people a chance to explore the issue in their own way, without feeling judged or pressured. And this isn’t just about changing minds and inspiring action. In an age of rising climate anxiety, creating this space can really help people’s well-being. And remember you don’t have to pack everything into one conversation. It’s better to have an interesting, friendly exchange that leaves the door open for next time, than to rush to a solid conclusion. TSTP thanks for this. Great thoughts. Thanks. I'm def guilty of banging on too much. And from a perilous position myself. And I also have anxiety, not to say anger, about the topic! But what are the top, self evident tips that everyone agrees and accepts and can be talked about without rancour? And in what order of importance /impact (here in west, developed, Europe, UK?) Fly less Drive less (less ICE or less EV too?) Eat less meat (or is less pre packaged food more important?) Green the home? (Change from oil/gas to electric heat? Insulate?) Where does general consumption come in? Clothes, tools, tech etc? ... What else? G
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4 May
9:26am, 4 May 2025
24,144 posts
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Gooner
It depends entirely on the audience. If you were to tell me off about flying to Portugal for my first holiday abroad in nearly 7 years in a couple of months after I had already looked at the viability of train/drive/ferry options and hiring an electric car for the trip, I might react very differently to someone who travels by plane for holiday every year and simply hadn't considered other options and again someone who travels a multitude of times a year for work. Telling people to drive less, people who live close to shops/work/schools and have an effective type of even range of public transport/ride share options are more likely to have the ability to change, but maybe not the inclination whereas I would happily switch my commute to cycling, at least in part but even with an e-bike, I can't due to it being around 60 miles round trip or further if I don't take busy, national speed limit A roads. I think the key is finding a way to make the audience you have at the time, either more aware of or more receptive to alternatives in areas that they can change in their circumstances and hopefully that starts a chain reaction. The way the world is at the moment, it is hard for a lot to make large differences on an individual basis without massive cost, time implications or a complete change of lifestyle and I think we would be better off trying to change a large proportion of people by a small amount than a small amount of people by a big amount. Which, in theory, should be more achievable. |
Useful Links
FE accepts no responsibility for external links. Or anything, really.- why Kodak completely missed the boat when it came to digital cameras
- rf_fozzy: This is quite a good article about how disruptive technology work
- run free's Grand Designs example Ben Laws is a man who built his dream
- Carbon Commentary carboncommentary.com
- UK ombudsman for problems with electricity or gas
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