Elite Athletics Thread

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larkim
larkim
May 2017
9:06am, 2 May 2017
1,900 posts
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larkim
Plus she used to run for the club my boys run at when she started as a youngster up in Cheshire. That *must* mean she's clean :-)
stuart little
stuart little
May 2017
9:26am, 2 May 2017
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stuart little
Sadly, there's no good way forward that can satisfy every angle. At least by having the debate, they're is some public acceptance by European athletics that some records are laughable in their cleanliness.

Re: Paula, personally I'm certain she was playing in the grey areas (e.g. https://academicathletics.wordpress.com/2016/07/06/actovegin-the-unfortunately-legal-performance-enhancing-drug/amp/) but I'd like to believe it stayed the correct side of the legal line at that point in time.
larkim
larkim
May 2017
9:34am, 2 May 2017
1,901 posts
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larkim
As I say whenever the grey areas are brought up, the grey areas are legal. Just like some of the arguments about "dodgy" tax arrangements, if there are grey areas the fingers should point at the legislators not those who take advantage of them. IAAF and WADA make the rules, you play by them.

Actovegin isn't in the grey area in terms of the WADA code. It's not banned, therefore it's legal. If they wanted to ban it, just like the various thyroid meds, they have a very easy and straightforward way to do it. The fact that they have chosen not to means it is legal to use within those guidelines. Nothing grey about that for me.
paul a
paul a
May 2017
9:52am, 2 May 2017
10,944 posts
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paul a
Agree.
jdarun
jdarun
May 2017
10:19am, 2 May 2017
1,493 posts
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jdarun
That may be true for the specific case of actovegin but TUEs are often much greyer.
stuart little
stuart little
May 2017
10:27am, 2 May 2017
1,274 posts
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stuart little
Larkim: I'm in agreement that if it's not specifically banned it's legal (though I struggle to see how actovegin doesn't violate the WADA "spirit of the sport" clause).
My point is that Paula was certainly no saint, but IMO pushed to the very edge of legality. The nuance of which side of the line she (and many others) come down on is for the likes of CAS to determine.
larkim
larkim
May 2017
10:31am, 2 May 2017
1,902 posts
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larkim
@jdarun - No they're not. The fact that TUEs are a grey area is a myth spun by the tabloids.

The best example of this is the "Fancy Bears" stuff. What the fancy bears stuff showed, with the notable exception of Wiggins, was that very few TUEs are authorised, and that all of them were for genuine medications necessitated by urgent circumstances.

TUEs are a massive distraction in the doping debate. Before some of the fancy bears stuff came out the allegation was that there were hundreds of TUEs being issued left right and centre to high profile athletes to legitimise doping. And that was despite the fact that, for example, the NOP team disclosed details of TUEs for their athletes. (https://nikeoregonproject.com/blogs/news/35522561-alberto-open-letter-part-1 - 4 TUEs in a 4 year period across all of the NOP athletes, and 2 for Galen Rupp in the whole of his career between 2010 and 2015)

For me what the Fancy Bears stuff showed was that these sorts of disclosures made by NOP were factually accurate - TUEs were not being heavily used / abused. The TUE system is actually a positive one and requires certification by a TUE body in the NGB.
larkim
larkim
May 2017
10:37am, 2 May 2017
1,903 posts
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larkim
@stuart little - I don't see how you criticise Paula. If you think it is "not being a saint" by using everything legal in your power to make yourself the best runner you can be, then that's not a definition i can live with.

If the rules say "no needles, pure and simple" then fair enough. Expecting talented runners to miss out on opportunities by not taking legal options just to remain "holier than thou" would be wasting their talent, it seems to me. Just like Daley Thompson and his Christmas Day quote, or Jonathan Edwards realising that competing and training on the Sabbath were necessary compromises to get the job done, so is maximising the use of legal additional aids.

I've posted before to the MarathonTalk podcast that I can see there'd be uproar if a runner said "I take the supplment beta-theta-oxy-whatsit" before every race, but if "beta-theta-oxy-whatsit" was the technical name for "beetroot juice" no-one would criticise them for taking beetroot juice.
The Teaboy
The Teaboy
May 2017
10:39am, 2 May 2017
15,026 posts
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The Teaboy
TUEs and grey areas. It's amazing how much the prevalence of conditions like asthma and thyroid issues are so, so much higher in elite athletes than the general population...

Find a friendly doctor...
larkim
larkim
May 2017
10:54am, 2 May 2017
1,904 posts
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larkim
Sigh....

Thyroid meds aren't banned and don't need a TUE.

Asthma inhalers aren't banned and don't need a TUE.

Indeed, WADA looked at thyroid meds just about 18 months ago and concluded there was no performancing enhancing benefit and specifically that they didn't need including on the banned list.

And ref asthma, salbutamol inhalers were removed from the banned list in 2010.

Please don't take this personally, but I am quite passionate about this - but there is too much lazy and ill-informed accusation about (fuelled by forums, discussion boards and poor journalism) which gets repeated and repeated and is simply factually inaccurate when talking about doping.

And most importantly (to me) it risks taking the eye of the real ball which could be new drugs, new administration techniques, new masking agents etc etc. And also tarnishes the reputations of good athletes through innuendo.

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