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Nov 2022
8:16am, 7 Nov 2022
44,525 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
gg, are you doing WHW race? Enjoy - I'm sure I'll be there in June, either as support crew for someone, or marshalling. Heck, I'll just come and run beside people and cheer, if I don't have any other role! Love it!
It's always worth increasing your leg strength for endurance and for uphill and downhill. I'm sure we all know that. But I think it's worth being realistic about how much running and how much walking you will be doing. e.g. the late John Kynaston had a fantastic insight, having done several WHW, with the quickest about 20 hours and slowest more like 30 and dropped out at least once, I think. He found that *downhill* running was worth training hard on. He ended up doing downhill hard reps of his local hills. A lot. The logic was that he would be walking uphills, but running the flats and down hills more. If he wanted still to be able to run the downs at the end, he needed quad strength. He had cramping quads and couldn't run down in previous races. There are two big, long downhills in last two sections, Devil's Staircase down to Kinlochleven and Lairig Mor down to Fort William to finish.
Makes sense? He was incredibly insightful and if you're able to, I would recommend his podcasts and blogs (inc much training detail!)
I can run a gentle, steady uphill for a few miles in a race of e.g. 13.1 miles. I didn't run a step uphill in my only WHW race. And I managed 22:37, which I was very happy with. And yes, I was running strongly *downhill* at the end. And yes, I did read John K's blogs!  G
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Nov 2022
8:18am, 7 Nov 2022
44,526 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
By the way, if I were ever training for WHW again or any other 100 mile type trail ultra, I would train more *walking*! I was able to run well at the end. But I was rubbish at walking at the start and middle. I'm not from a hill walking or long-distance walking background. Walking is hard. I didn't train for it enough. It hurt me in the race. The running bit was "fine"! G
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Nov 2022
8:49am, 7 Nov 2022
3,548 posts
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flyingfinn
That's good advice Happy. For most your descending will deteriorate much quicker than your ascending if you don't prepare properly. Rather than doing conventional hill sessions (hard up easy down) Kenyan hill sessions where it's a continous effort up and down are a good session. Being able to run hard down at the end of an ultra will gain you far more time than being able to run up at the start.
Practice your walking is also very sound advice.
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Nov 2022
8:54am, 7 Nov 2022
57,262 posts
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Derby Tup
Avoiding that dreaded 2mph death match at the end of an ultra, where you’re looking at your watch constantly and seeing time haemorrhaging away is key
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Nov 2022
9:45am, 7 Nov 2022
19,096 posts
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geordiegirl
We’re doing it over 4 days aiming for September
In a race or my own day out I’d walk the hills last weekend was more me stressing about keeping up with the group. I will keep working on improving my hill ascents even as a fast effective walk and great thought on working more on descent as that goes actually make more sense - at the lakes last year I was in awe at the speed some people got down the hills. Thanks so much.
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Nov 2022
10:24am, 7 Nov 2022
2,023 posts
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paulcook
The logic was that he would be walking uphills, but running the flats and down hills more. If he wanted still to be able to run the downs at the end, he needed quad strength.
Intriguing. Something like this - though it wasn't quads (hips if I recall) - happened on my first Three Peaks race. I was happy running uphill at the end but flat or downhill pained me.
Have to say I have down some hard downhill workouts prior to other races particularly to strengthen my less than sturdy quads.
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Nov 2022
10:42am, 7 Nov 2022
19,100 posts
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geordiegirl
I’m very good at walking 😃G
I’m going to do some downhill training power hike up and fly down we have a good hill close by that if I fell wouldn’t be too hard a fall I need to stop being fearful of falling. Of course all of this will be next year after I recover from my bunion removal.
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Dec 2022
8:35am, 24 Dec 2022
10 posts
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Lost in Mud
Badger pointed me at this thread, I've been reading with interest the last few pages on hill running, I live in a very flat area so hill training is limited, but I've been training on a muddy hill a short drive away, 10% gradient (50m in 500m). I've been running up and down at an easy pace while training for the Arc50 in January. There are not many training weeks left, but I'm thinking I should use my remaining sessions to walk the ups, and run the downs fast?
There is another smaller hill, but much steeper gradient, ~25M climb at 25% gradient, would that be a better hill to train for the Arc50 on?
Travelling further to find bigger hills isn't really an option for me now, looking at the Arc50 profile, big climbs aren't the challenge, it's many small climbs, but I'd welcome any advice from more experienced runners.
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Dec 2022
9:44pm, 24 Dec 2022
45,119 posts
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Merry Christmas & Happy New G(rrr)
50 miles not too hilly Mudster? I'd just train for long long and not worry too much about hills!
My other "tip" is to concentrate on what you will do in race - if you will walk large portion then train walking. I'm OK at marathon running, even ultra running but 10, 15, 20 hours plus with significant walking parts, I was rubbish. Why? I'd never done long walks! Even in my 30, 40 mile training runs I was trying to run most of it. Wroooong!
Best of luck. G
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Dec 2022
3:58pm, 25 Dec 2022
11 posts
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Lost in Mud
thanks G,
The mud I can cope with, love it but 8,000ft is more than I'd normally do in a month, even when hill training
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