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So who won the tour from 1999 to 2005

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SPR Aug 2018 7:07pm, 31 Aug 2018 26,955 posts	Quote Pin SPR Lack of loss of muscle size isn't necessarily a good thing is power is lost. Are they still as strong in the gym?
Chrisull Sep 2018 12:40pm, 5 Sep 2018 13,215 posts	Quote Pin Chrisull Sioutsou, an unofficial drugs cheat before he joined Sky (well 8 out of 10 on the UCI doping suspicion list and lots of others at that level confirmed cheats) , and now an official drugs cheat after he left Sky. Hmm, hmm... cyclingnews.com I'm not accusing Sky of doping, but that zero-tolerance policy just gets raggeder and raggeder. If you're domestiques are doped up to the eyeballs and you turn a blind eye, that is still cheating, even if Froome/Wiggins and Thomas were 100% clean.
Chrisull Sep 2018 12:41pm, 5 Sep 2018 13,216 posts	Quote Pin Chrisull your not you're . Grrr.
larkim Sep 2018 1:08pm, 5 Sep 2018 5,506 posts	Quote Pin larkim Apart from taking issue with the "unofficial drugs cheat" bit (you either officially are, or you officially aren't, in my world!), the AAF is from data collected in his time with BM not Sky. Isn't it more plausible (or at least equally plausible) that an ageing pro turns to doping in the twilight of his career after being let go by Sky, rather than inferring that he was at it the whole time through his Sky career? Or perhaps it was the very zero tolerance policy that led to him leaving Sky? Whether you're a domestique or a leading rider, I'd expect the anti-doping policy of Sky to apply equally to all.
SPR Sep 2018 1:12pm, 5 Sep 2018 26,994 posts	Quote Pin SPR I think my take is the same as Larkim's This basically tells you all you need to know. Siutsou tests positive for EPO in out-of-competition test Bahrain-Merida told Belarusian in June his contract would not be renewed
Derby Tup Sep 2018 1:25pm, 5 Sep 2018 26,811 posts	Quote Pin Derby Tup They’re on it; the lot of ‘em
Chrisull Sep 2018 1:38pm, 5 Sep 2018 13,217 posts	Quote Pin Chrisull 8 out of 10 on the UCI doping suspicion list to my mind is a good "unofficial"
larkim Sep 2018 1:47pm, 5 Sep 2018 5,507 posts	Quote Pin larkim We'll agree to differ on that list. Across the whole list there are dopers and there are unproved / clean cyclists. It's unfair to tag anyone as an unofficial doper simply because of the unmoderated / univestigated scores in that report.
Derby Tup Sep 2018 2:06pm, 5 Sep 2018 26,812 posts	Quote Pin Derby Tup A good doper will beat a good clean rider (probably) - Jiffygate killed any last semblance of belief I had with Sky and they’ve been the pre-eminent team of the last decade
larkim Sep 2018 2:51pm, 5 Sep 2018 5,509 posts	Quote Pin larkim So one transaction where one (unknown whether legitimate or not as documentation not clear) pharmaceutical product was taken in a jiffy bag from the UK to France is enough to undermine the absence of doping positives, a reduction in TUEs, transparency of TUEs in the Sky team and no anecdotal evidence of doping abuse in the team? I think we all know which side I tend towards, and I know your stance is not new DT, but I do think it is illogical at best.