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So who won the tour from 1999 to 2005

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larkim Dec 2017 4:30pm, 21 Dec 2017 3,597 posts	Quote Pin larkim TMW - that's the problem with transparency though. Genuine use of normal levels of asthma medication shouldn't in any way really be seen as dodgy, but when presented with a tag of "doping" in a newspaper article it gets misunderstood. You can make anything sound dodgy. Give beetroot juice a new name (or extract its key component and call it Beta V) and that would immediately sound as if it was on the wrong side of the line. We only "trust" caffeine because we consume it ourselves daily, if it wasn't in tea and coffee etc we'd view it as a chemical which sounds "wrong".
Gobi Dec 2017 4:33pm, 21 Dec 2017 62,433 posts	Quote Pin Gobi caffeine used to be on the WADA list
Chrisull Dec 2017 4:35pm, 21 Dec 2017 12,082 posts	Quote Pin Chrisull OK - so cause wise, it seems further speculation isn't going to lead anywhere So what happens next - this link from a cycling journalist who specialises in interpreting WADA stuff is also interesting, on how Froome is currently in a position where he has both broken the rules/and hasn't. The burden of proof is currently upon him though, he will almost certainly have to do a lab test and replicate what happened on the day - which Ulissi tried to do and failed to convince a hearing : cyclist.co.uk So we're in a situation probably, where he will likely fail to convince a panel that is was natural spike from his own physiological idiosyncrasies (given no-one else has managed to thus far), no other explanation will be offered (given Sky's past record), and he will be given/escape a ban depending on the view of the panel, and it will become like the contents of the jiffy bag, unknowable, relying on our particular faith in Froome's mendacity (or lack of).
larkim Dec 2017 4:37pm, 21 Dec 2017 3,598 posts	Quote Pin larkim It is on the 2018 monitoring programme, so that may revert back. Interesting that they're in two minds about this. If its legal, it's legal.
Chrisull Dec 2017 4:40pm, 21 Dec 2017 12,083 posts	Quote Pin Chrisull larks - I'm guessing you've seen this link on caffeine from road.cc then? road.cc Has to satisfy 2 out of 3 criteria to get banned. Sounds like 1) is a given, so 2) is arguable... 3) I doubt is a deal breaker, plenty of cyclists neck expressos before a ride.
larkim Dec 2017 4:41pm, 21 Dec 2017 3,599 posts	Quote Pin larkim Certainly the burden of proof lies with Froome - 2017 WADA list says Froome's levels are an AAF "unless the athlete the Athlete proves, through a controlled pharmacokinetic study, that the abnormal result was the consequence of the use of the therapeutic dose (by inhalation) up to the maximum dose indicated above"
larkim Dec 2017 4:45pm, 21 Dec 2017 3,600 posts	Quote Pin larkim Yes, I knew of that criteria Chris. The third criteria is an odd one, not very objective. But interestingly that is the only time where "the spirit of the code" comes into play, despite what some people might think. But given how prevalent caffeine is in the diet of the population as a whole, I can only really see them opting to ban the sorts of levels that have resulted in death or serious injury (which have happened from time to time with teenagers etc drinking Red Bull / Energy Monster etc to excess).
Chrisull Dec 2017 4:54pm, 21 Dec 2017 12,085 posts	Quote Pin Chrisull So Froome can continuing fighting/appealing this, and probably get to ride Giro/TDF and/or Vuelta as he chooses, potentially win his 5th TDF and retire meanwhile... I can't see how that would be remotely satisfactory.
larkim Dec 2017 4:59pm, 21 Dec 2017 3,602 posts	Quote Pin larkim Well, if he's innocent it would be entirely satisfactory!! I presume there is some deadline set somewhere for a PK test to be completed and resolve the issue. I strongly doubt it will take that long to be concluded.
While Raptor Knitted Socks by Night Dec 2017 5:15pm, 21 Dec 2017 37,330 posts	Quote Pin While Raptor Knitted Socks by Night I wouldn't mind seeing Froome being cleared and going on to ride without further cause for suspicion until his career comes to its natural conclusion.