Run Walk Run
106 watchers
Apr 2014
11:11am, 24 Apr 2014
2,037 posts
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RevBarbaraG
A thread about the merits (or otherwise) and practice of including walk breaks in runs - particularly, but not exclusively, in the way recommended by former Olympic 10K runner Jeff Galloway. In short, he argues that when walk breaks are taken: 1) systematically from the start of a long run/race; 2) to a schedule which is related to overall pace There are many benefits, including: 1) Lower risk of injury 2) Less soreness and quicker recovery 3) Ability to run further than one could do with non-stop running 4) More even pace, i.e. less propensity to slow down in the later stages 5) (And this is the one that many people find difficult to believe) Faster times than can be achieved with continuous running. It seems counter-intuitive, doesn't it? Then you can spend part of your marathon or half-marathon walking, and yet go quicker than if you ran non-stop. But this is what he claims, based on the experience of thousands of runners he has coached over several decades. In particular, he says: 1) That half marathon times are reduced by an average of 7 minutes, and marathon by 13 minutes, when someone who formerly ran non-stop switches to the recommended RWR ratio (NB - these are people who have previously completed one or more Mara/Half non-stop) 2) That he knows of more than 150 runners who have cracked 3 hours for the marathon for the first time when they switched to RWR. Over on the VMLM 2014 thread (where this started), Paul the Builder asked: Yes, but how well-trained were they? From where does his data come...? I surmise that his data comes from the people he has coached, mainly through training groups. I don't know how well trained they were, but I thought the following paragraph was interesting. It's taken from one of his (many!) books: "The Run-Walk-Run Method", from a section about how he came to the method after working with groups of runners, some of whom were complete novices, others were former runners who had not run for several years. He started using RWR with them to reduce the risk of injury (which it was highly successful at), but also discovered that it made them faster runners: "Many of the veteran marathoners refused to take walk breaks at first. As the former beginners moved into longer distance events such as marathons, they continued to adjust walk breaks and started to record faster times than the veterans. This lead to the use of walk breaks in all pace groups." |
Apr 2014
11:20am, 24 Apr 2014
3,129 posts
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Rosehip
From Hal Higdon's website Walking Breaks: Walking is a perfectly acceptable strategy even for intermediate runners, and it works during training runs too. While some coaches recommend walking 1 minute out of every 10, or walking 1 minute every mile, I teach runners to walk when they come to an aid station. This serves a double function: 1) you can drink more easily while walking as opposed to running, and 2) since many other runners slow or walk through aid stations, you'll be less likely to block those behind. It's a good idea to follow this strategy in training as well. (In training, you may want to wear a water belt to insure proper hydration.) You will lose less time walking than you think. I once ran a 2:29 marathon, walking through every aid station. My son Kevin ran 2:18 and qualified for the Olympic Trials employing a similar strategy. And Bill Rodgers took four brief breaks (tying a shoe on one of them) while running 2:09 and winning the 1975 Boston Marathon. Walking gives your body a chance to rest, and you'll be able to continue running more comfortably. It's best to walk when you want to, not when your (fatigued) body forces you too. I plan to walk just long enough to drink at next Marathon attempt - that will be every 3.5 miles or so - but I shall do my long runs in training with that break in too. A quick water -station walk at Oakley ( 3 mile intervals/ 20 mile race) did seem to help |
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Apr 2014
11:37am, 24 Apr 2014
2,039 posts
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RevBarbaraG
When I got my VMLM 2014 place (September), I planned my training with the intention that I would take walk breaks at water stations - after 3 miles, then potentially every mile, though in practice not every mile IYKWIM. I adopted RWR from the start of the race because of injury during the final 4 months of training. But, I like it!! I also like running more continuously on shorter runs. At the moment, I am still taking walk breaks on shorter runs, but that is because I still have injury niggles. I do intend to get back to running at least 5K non-stop, maybe further. But I would think that for anything 10 miles or more, I will stick with some sort of RWR strategy. Myabe I'll do a scientific experiment: alternate my parkruns - one week continuous, one week RWR, and see which is quicker on average. Trouble is, I'd have to be pushing for it to be a fair comparison. |
Apr 2014
11:57am, 24 Apr 2014
10,432 posts
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mulbs
*waves* I have used RWR to get me back out there after babies/bereavement/injury a few times and think it's great, I have also found on long runs that every 3/3.5 miles is my optimum time for a drink and a snack (call it fuel if you like). For me I think the psychological benefit of knowing I've a planned walk coming up is a biog thing, as a slower (but still proud  ) runner, being out there for hours and hours would be very daunting without planned breaks. Good thread Barbara
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Apr 2014
12:28pm, 24 Apr 2014
2,040 posts
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RevBarbaraG
*waves back* Interesting that you've worked out an optimum time for breaks, mulbs. Over on the RW forums there's a thread about using RWR for VMLM, and one of the runners there has been having email coaching from Jeff Galloway himself. He has had her experiment with different ratios to see what's worked best. So, even though he publishes suggested ratios based on pace, in practice it would seem that those are only a starting point. It's down to "what walks for you", as so many things are. While JG has published a load of books, all the info you need it freely available on his website. The suggested run/walk ratios are at the bottom of this page: jeffgalloway.com I've mainly used 30/30, which is right for running around 14 mins/mile. At 13 mins/mile, he suggests 60/60 - however, he also says at one point that you can always divide the ratios by 2 if you want to, and that most people don't get any additional benefit from taking walk breaks longer than 30 seconds. So, I may as well stick with 30/30 until my pace starts to approach 12 mins/mile, in which case it would make sense to switch to 60/30. Other thing to note is that these ratios are suggested for LONG runs and races of half mara and above. For shorter runs/races, walk breaks are optional (well, they're always optional!), and if you want to run it non-stop, do so. He does suggest that for a (half) marathon you should stick with the initial ratio until you are 2/3 of the way through, and then if you feel inclined to do so, you can reduce or drop the walk breaks. As part of preparation for this, he suggests running the last 2 miles of some of your shorter runs non-stop. Yesterday I did 5 miles RWR by feel, i.e. not to a ratio. By the end I was doing run segments of several minutes at a time - and I felt fine at the time, but my knee has been giving me a bit of gyp since. Yet it was perfectly happy to RWR 26.2 miles at a consistent 30/30 until the last mile.... |
Apr 2014
12:33pm, 24 Apr 2014
4,493 posts
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paul the builder
I think it's going to be hard for this topic to be something other than 'faith'-based, if you catch my drift. Those anecdotes in Rosehip's post - there's nothing to suggest that each of the 3 couldn't have achieved those times, or slightly better, by running throughout. Hal has a 2:21 PB, for instance. Plus - how long were those walks, really? For an elite / near-elite runner, walking at a drinks station is probably 5 seconds, 10 at most. with such short walk breaks, the size of the effect is going to diminish to nearly nothing (whichever direction it is - worse or better). The claimed improvements (average) of 7 min for a HM and 13 min for a marathon are just *so* enormous (30 seconds per mile pace improvement) that, to me, they could only be achieved by someone who isn't properly trained for either event in the first place, and are then just 'managing' their completion. Which as I said on the other thread, is absolutely fine if that's the position you find yourself in. But I can't see how it can possibly apply to most(*) runners. Lots and lots of runners have a vaguely coherent set of PBs, from 5k to marathon. To imagine that a typical runner could improve their HM PB pace by 30 seconds/mile through RWR (so probably now somewhere between 5k and 10k PB pace *on average*) seems amazing to me. Let me put it another way and do a sense-check - instead of steady running a HM, someone instead does 4 x 5km sections (actually stretch one to 5.5k to make the distance up) at 10k PB pace. And walks the remaining 600m in 3 walk break sections between the 'reps'. *If* you could do it, it's still nowhere near a 7 min improvement. Let's be generous and say 10k pace was 25 sec/mile better than HM (a pretty large difference) and walking pace was 15min/mile (a brisk walk) - then for someone at ~2 hr HM level, that makes roughly a 3 minute improvement. At ~3 hr HM level, it's still only about 5 minutes. a) that's a damn testing session b) where is the 7 minute average improvement going to come from? It can only come from disaster-avoidance, which is the point I'm trying to make about how this just doesn't add up apart from for highly under-trained runners. Again, none meant to anyone. We each are where we are, and make the choices we make, and have the constraints we have. This isn't about that, it's about the idea of RWR apparently benefiting most(*) runners... (*) What did he claim here, in terms of the proportion of runners? |
Apr 2014
12:35pm, 24 Apr 2014
15,745 posts
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DeeGee
Due to intermittent gastric issues when running long distances fast, I always now walk through aid stations, as suggested by Higdon. I'm a sub 90 minute Half-Marathonner, so very much in the "intermediate" category. I'm also quite happy taking a walk break during long runs as a consequence. |
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Apr 2014
12:38pm, 24 Apr 2014
15,746 posts
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DeeGee
Due to intermittent gastric issues when running long distances fast, I always now walk through aid stations, as suggested by Higdon. I'm a sub 90 minute Half-Marathonner, so very much in the "intermediate" category. I'm also quite happy taking a walk break during long runs as a consequence. |
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Apr 2014
12:48pm, 24 Apr 2014
10,433 posts
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mulbs
I am not clever enough to drink and run, I drown. Consequently I am guaranteed to be faster if I take walk breaks to fuel - alive is significantly faster than dead after all!
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Apr 2014
12:55pm, 24 Apr 2014
6,694 posts
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Bazoaxe
PtB - if you look at the numbers i VLM and inish time, its quite possible that most could benefit. c35k vinished VLM and a quick check of results showed 16000th was around 4:20 which is an arbitrary cut off, but if the 19000 over 4:20 applied RWR and improved, that covers most runners and also may lead to the 13 minute average. As I said on the 2014 thread though I am entirely with you in that if you are aiming to run a marathon at around the maximum you are physically capable of, then RWR is not going to help you achieve this. I dont believe 100s have achieved sub 3 for the first time when fllowing this strategy unless they actually turned out to be 2:30ish marathoners. I would love to hear from someone who has done so though. |
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