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Gareth Southgate: yes or no?

8 watchers
Nellers
Nellers
Jun 2024
4:19pm, 11 Jun 2024
43,016 posts
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Nellers
He's the most successful England manager in my lifetime (I know technically Ramsey was still in the job when I was born but he'd already had his day and didn't last long, and I certainly don't remember it) and he's got a really talented group of player, although with very few really good defenders.

He's comfortably qualified for every tournament since he's had the job and he's consistently performed better than the "national average" when he gets there.

I don't understand why anyone looks at Southgate and thinks "There's a bloke that's underperforming. Sack him."

I think we'll make a semi-final at least this time round, and if you get that far anything can happen, and probably will.
Derby Tup
Derby Tup
Jun 2024
4:25pm, 11 Jun 2024
66,299 posts
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Derby Tup
Ocelot Spleens wrote:No. He's had his time. Plus I don't like waist coats


I thought he’d moved on to half zip fine gauge knitwear
paulcook
paulcook
Jun 2024
4:26pm, 11 Jun 2024
5,207 posts
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paulcook
No waistcoats on the current team photo!
cackleberry
cackleberry
Jun 2024
4:38pm, 11 Jun 2024
3,848 posts
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cackleberry
Sorry, I thought this was a politics question.

Southgate for PM?
Surrey Phil
Surrey Phil
Jun 2024
4:51pm, 11 Jun 2024
10,426 posts
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Surrey Phil
I would say yes.

The problem is that the Premier League is so intent on bringing in overseas players that there aren't enough English players coming through. Would players like Eze, Palmer and Branthwaite got so much as a mention a year or so ago? A first team appearance in the Premier League virtually guarantees an England call up!
Ocelot Spleens
Ocelot Spleens
Jun 2024
5:16pm, 11 Jun 2024
38,993 posts
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Ocelot Spleens
I don't like Knitwear either. Double No.
Ocelot Spleens
Ocelot Spleens
Jun 2024
5:18pm, 11 Jun 2024
38,994 posts
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Ocelot Spleens
Incidentally the influx of foreign layers means any English layer who gets any games is very good.
GordonG
GordonG
Jun 2024
5:31pm, 11 Jun 2024
10,385 posts
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GordonG
Ocelot Spleens wrote:No. He's had his time. Plus I don't like waist coats. QF at best, shaky defence, although that's not all his fault. Mark my words.


that's the point of the thread, really! :-)
Fat Dave
Fat Dave
Jun 2024
5:32pm, 11 Jun 2024
15,292 posts
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Fat Dave
^ I don't think the "England have a small pool of players because of foreigners in the Premier League" holds water, tbh.

It relies on a couple of flawed pieces of logic, IMHO:

1. Only players in the Premier League can be good enough to play for England
2. English players can't thrive overseas

...when this England team features the Premier League *and* La Liga players of the year, *and* the Bundesliga and Champions League top scorer.

(Also: Palmer is the Premier League young player of the season. He came second in assists AND second in goals scored in the Premier League, in a struggling Chelsea side. I think it's fair to say he would've got a mention.)

England haven't failed to qualify for a World Cup since 1994. And we now consistently qualify and progress to the knockout stages of tournaments (we went out at the Euros group stages in 1980, 1988, 1992, and 2000 and have failed to qualify five times).

Compared to times when the league was mostly English players, the England team is *much* better now.

Why? The foreign players have made the Premier League the best league in the world. As a result, any English player who plays regularly in that environment has to be pretty damned good, by definition, and used to playing with and against world class talent every week. If players like Eze and Branthwaite are in the England frame, it's because they've earned it - the reason they weren't mentioned last year is that Southgate was still picking Usual Suspects like Henderson and Maguire then. Likewise, when the likes of Phillips, Sterling, Grealish, and Maddison lost form, they've been dropped.

(And there are *loads* of consistent English PL performers who haven't had a look-in. Doughty, Solanke, March, Brownhill, Adarabioyo, Gibbs-White, Dawson, Mitchell, Yates, Kilman, and Garner, to name just... well, XI.)

Meanwhile, England have just lost (albeit a friendly) to a country with half the population of Cornwall, which has only 100 professional players in total. And teams who predominantly pick players from the Championship and below still perform well on the international stage.

In short: Yes, England have historically underperformed, but the foreign players are not the reason.
Derby Tup
Derby Tup
Jun 2024
6:10pm, 11 Jun 2024
66,302 posts
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Derby Tup
Ocelot Spleens wrote:Incidentally the influx of foreign layers means any English layer who gets any games is very good.


Italian layering is generally strong

About This Thread

Maintained by GordonG
Here’s your chance to be wise before the event.

Instead of England winning / losing in a glorious semi final defeat and afterwards everyone saying, “Told you he was the right man for the job”, or being embarrassingly knocked out of the group stage / losing timidly in the QF and afterwards everyone saying, “Told you he wasn't the right man for the job”, here’s your chance to be wise before the event and put on record whether you think Gareth Southgate is the right manager for...
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