The Environment Thread :-)
61 watchers
Jul 2020
12:57pm, 4 Jul 2020
4,244 posts
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run free
The solar powered version is great. Reminds me of the start of the internet and how it is becoming the matrix
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Jul 2020
1:09pm, 4 Jul 2020
10,520 posts
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rf_fozzy
So. Pump-up hydro. Yes. Good idea. *But* as with wind turbines and similar. It's all about Location, Location, Location. If you have the geography and aren't going to do much ecological damage, then it's worth it. As long as you're using RE to doing the pumping up, that's fine. We do get useful electricity from the PuHS that we have, but I believe there are two key issues in building more: - available locations - cost (monetary and ecological) I remember seeing a design from a Scottish bloke who wanted to dam the River Findhorn to create a huge reservoir in the highlands (I think it was this one: https://scottishscientist.wordpress.com/2015/04/15/worlds-biggest-ever-pumped-storage-hydro-scheme-for-scotland/). My question would be how many people live in the valley to be flooded, what wildlife lives up there, what ecosystems would be destroyed etc. Dinorwig was great because the damage was already done from the Slate mining. Electric Mountain well worth a visit if you're in Llanberis btw. |
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Jul 2020
1:28pm, 4 Jul 2020
10,521 posts
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rf_fozzy
So re: thermoelectric effect. If I remember my physics correctly (which I should being a Physicist...), then the EMF generated depends on the temperature gradient. Basically a bit like a peltier heater in reverse if I'm thinking correctly (someone correct me if I'm going down the wrong alley). So, it's possible something could be built that is useful. But needs big temperature gradients? Thus this will limit the usefulness for generating electricity? *However* as with all these things and new ideas, I always adhere to the 'Jerry Maguire' principle: "show me the money" So when nuclear people start talk about small modular reactors, thorium reactors or whatever Unicorn they've come up with, I ask them to (a) show me a working commercial prototype and (b) ask how much it will cost. (a) being most important of course. (I also like to point out that the nuclear industry has a *negative* cost-learning curve) So, I can see that at the moment whilst it might only generate 25mW/m2 (from article, not ~nW as RF stated), this could eventually be useful. After all, the first commercial Solar PV cells were ~mW/m2 (unless I'm misrembering? - again correct me if so), but it'll take time for the technology to mature. *However* (n2) the important thing is that solar PV (and onshore wind) are already cheaper than any other form of power generation. In some cases, they're cheaper than the *fuel* required for thermal power generation. And still falling in price. Thus the point is that we already have the tools at the right prices (and falling) to generate enough power. I suspect batteries will fill the gaps - the technology is already mature and improving rapidly and falling in price rapidly. But I think (according to Jacobsen at Stamford at least) it's entirely possible to build sufficent RE to generate minute for minute required power with today's technolgies and v little storage. If I remember the Jacobsen work used 5 years worth of historical weather data to calculate what would be needed to generate sufficient power. It was done all with Wind Wave and solar technology - for the UK this was basically a big chunk of wind and solar and the odd wave/tidal bit. |
Jul 2020
2:04pm, 4 Jul 2020
2,595 posts
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Fellrunning
I suppose we use a combination of low tech and high tech here. We burn wood for example. Over 80% comes from natural felling (Wind damage or diseased timber) . Much of the rest comes from coppiced woodland. We create about two hectares of new broadleaved woodland per year. Mostly using EU money which will be cut off come December. I'm busy trying to find alternative funds. Solar stores. We have two of those. Surplus solar power heats two large tanks. One for domestic hot water, one as raw heat for the central heating. Ground source. We have it in the main house now. Previously it was just in the workers cottages. Jury is out as to whether the capital investment (over 30k for all three buildings, and we did all the trenching for the main house ourselves) will pay off. I'm not unhappy if it doesn't as it still gets I'd away from LPG which is environmentally horrible. A low tech thing that makes me smile when I think about it. Our main hay storage area is right next door to the brewery. Hay gets quite hot when it's first cut (you actually have to be quite careful as it can spontaneously combust) so we run hoses between the bales and draw off enough heat to aid the brewing process. I don't think it's really possible, domestically, to be energy independent. Not without a huge capital investment. Even ordinary domestic solar panels require mains voltage to work the inverter. We're lucky here as we have so much space and more or less a free hand. Much harder in the modern suburban environment. |
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Jul 2020
12:23am, 5 Jul 2020
10,531 posts
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rf_fozzy
Fellrunning - having more space certainly makes sustainability easier! I guess the same can be said that (in general) the wealthier you are, it's theoretically easier to be more sustainable. Should you choose to be. I'd have much more growing land with a big garden/land. I often look at what "rich" people do with big houses with big land and think that they waste so much. At least I have an allotment too |
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Jul 2020
6:42am, 5 Jul 2020
4,245 posts
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run free
Foz - Depends on what you define sustainability as. Think it is more choice than how rich you are. Unless you're talking about generating electricity, then possibly although I know of a guy who lives in an HDB flat (in Singapore) and being South facing used his own solar panels to generate electricity from his windows / balcony. (Image of an HDB: https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/owners-old-hdb-flats-cautiously-optimistic-new-rules-can-improve-resale-market) Have Sg friends who grow their own on the shared balconies and some have gone further to get an "allotment" on the roof tops (if council allows). We have freegan groups that go dumpster diving rescuing stuff that could be reused that local HDB flat dwellers have tossed out, or supermarkets/bakeries that throw out food; food rescuers who used to go to restaurants/hotels to take away the food waste they would throw out and redistribute and have created specific apps that restauranters/hotels can use to get them in. Have zero wasters who have found they don't need to spend a lot of money for their needs. And have shown companies by rebranding "frugal" to thinking sustainable and being sustainable, saves money. In fact "rich" people may find it harder to be sustainable as they want to spend their hard earned money and tend to want stuff / travel frequently / eat imported foods |
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Jul 2020
9:50am, 5 Jul 2020
2,596 posts
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Fellrunning
The old Victorian estates (of which Birchinlea is a remaining rump) were self sufficient, but not necessarily sustainable. Things like walled gardens could produce food for the entire household the year round, but at a horrible environmental cost. Some of the pest controls such as red lead and arsenic simply poisoned everything. They also operated with large work forces. To me sustainability is about producing the most whilst leaving the smallest footprint I can. So you learn the science and work the problem. You use technology to enhance what you do. For example my in lamb ewes are ultra sound scanned to take the guesswork out of things. No point in giving an empty ewe the extra feed that the twinners need. (the empties don't get starved btw but they don't need the midnight snacks). And you work with nature. What can I do to make x or y happen? Take flood control. Planting trees reducing flow by putting in leaky dams, digging overflow ponds to trap excess water, reintroduction of species like beavers all save poured concrete further downstream. Win win. Nature benefits, we benefit. |
Jul 2020
10:41am, 5 Jul 2020
8,743 posts
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simbil
That's great FR, the win-win stuff should get more air time. Greens are sometimes seen as a noisey minority trying to limit people's freedom / fun but there are lots of cases where people can help out in some way if the mindset is there. Would be nice to see some more gov incentives too so that it becomes a simple bottom line calculation for those that don't have the mindset. Do you get any encouragement for your projects? |
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Jul 2020
11:47am, 5 Jul 2020
2,597 posts
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Fellrunning
The Estate trustees are very supportive, but don't have a great deal of hard cash. I've become very adept at extracting grants. Strangely the latter stages of Brexit have proved something of a bonanza cash wise as I've been able to hoover up quite a lot of re wilding money that was going begging as others mistakenly assumed that the taps had already been turned off in Brussels. I've recently got another grant from the EU for a further 5000 trees over 2 years. I'm sure I'm not supposed to have that but hey who's arguing? Just gotta get 'em planted now. Or rather just got to clear the land and plant them - that's the hard part. Tree planting in winter in the hills. I'll let you fill in the gaps... And nature surprises you sometimes. As soon as we started managing the forest properly we had things re appear that hadn't been here for a long time. As for what happens after Dec 31st when the EU taps are turned off for good. Well who knows? Heard lots of fine words, but I suspect there'll be bigger short term priorities. All you can do is keep flying the flag really. |
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Jul 2020
5:49pm, 5 Jul 2020
10,534 posts
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rf_fozzy
RF - I said "easier" - it's much easier the wealthier you are to be more sustainable. It's not impossible for most people to be better - although I'd argue it's impossible for anyone to be totally sustainable/ecological - somethings within the framework in which we live are just made impossible to be better. E.g. toothpaste. Brexit could make some things difficult. Especially since the axe about to be taken to planning regs seems to be about getting rid of any environmental protections. If anyone doesn't get the "carbon commentary" weekly news update, you can sign up here: carboncommentary.com - usually about 10 or so snippets of interesting stuff that Chris Goodall puts together usually with a UK slant. Often useful and interesting bits and pieces in there. |
Useful Links
FE accepts no responsibility for external links. Or anything, really.- why Kodak completely missed the boat when it came to digital cameras
- rf_fozzy: This is quite a good article about how disruptive technology work
- run free's Grand Designs example Ben Laws is a man who built his dream
- Carbon Commentary carboncommentary.com
- UK ombudsman for problems with electricity or gas
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