The Environment Thread :-)
61 watchers
Aug 2022
4:47pm, 8 Aug 2022
43,228 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
My understanding is that that is a mistake on EPC rating rf. They are using old values for efficiency of heat pumps and you end up with lower EPC after putting in, vs. a gas boiler. Ridiculous that in this day and age, the prime measurement of environmental impact in housing is wrong! |
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Aug 2022
4:48pm, 8 Aug 2022
43,229 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Being slightly more generous - EPC is Energy Performance. Strictly speaking a heat pump might use *more* energy, but if it is green electricity vs. gas which can *only* burn fossil fuel (gas!), then it's not efficiency we should be measuring, but environmental impact. And worse EPC rating for heat pump v. gas is just not helpful. |
Aug 2022
5:50pm, 8 Aug 2022
13,142 posts
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jda
I'd hope that a suitably-designed ASHP would *definitely* use less energy than anything else, though it could perhaps be worse for carbon emissions if the electricity was generated by fossil fuels. The whole point of ASHP is that you get out more useful heat that way than you would if you just used the energy directly in a heater. Else, just do that! From what I've read, their limitation is that basically they aren't generally suitable for colder draughtier houses as their efficiency drops markedly when asked to generate large amounts of heat. Though some locals claim theirs is fine in an old stone building. I suspect they may be more tolerant of colder temps than many would be these days. |
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Aug 2022
9:05pm, 8 Aug 2022
43,231 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
It was Home Enegy Scotland official that told me your EPC will show worse *after* heat pump. I believe him. I don't know why but it seems to concur with what rf has experienced.
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Aug 2022
10:28pm, 8 Aug 2022
5,130 posts
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run free
My ashp is definitely more efficient at heating water than my gas boiler. I just spoke to the epc guy and he seems to think it is becos gas is cheaper than electricity. I could have just upgraded my gas boiler to a more efficient boiler if that was the case. Additionally another plumber I spoke with after I had done my installation said hydrogen boilers are more efficient. So when hydrogen generation becomes more common, there will be a switch. There are now hydrogen ready gas boilers.
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Aug 2022
4:44am, 9 Aug 2022
5,131 posts
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run free
😀g been thinking about yr analogy There are many who still think we need to take “baby” steps to stay within their comfort zone until they are ready...a transition..... But we are past the “baby” steps phase and need to take “adult” steps if we are going to begin to heal our climate crisis and plastic pollution issue. The govts need to take stronger leadership and enable the public to do so and can create legislations that direct the majority of the public to do so. Some countries have banned plastic bags being handed out at supermarkets. Other govts have created a charge for plastic bags to give us the option of whether we take a bag. And finally there are govts still doing nothing. In the first instance there is a significant decrease of plastic bag usage. In the second instance, unless the charge is significant is still not that effective, allowing a dripping tap to continue to drop into a full basin of water that is overflowing. The Bs are very much in the minority with the A and C in the majority. C are taking “baby” steps. A impacts on all living life. But it is not so straightforward. The baby steppers are often telling me I should speak to India, China and Indonesia on plastic pollution. (Not in my backyard syndrome) Yet close their eyes when told their plastic is still being sent to these countries(Indonesia, Turkey and India) and they continue to purchase goods manufactured in China. There is environmental fatigue but in this ultra marathon we have no choice but to keep going or continue killing lives with our apathy. The majority must find the energy to move towards doing everything they can. At the moment it feels like the person with high blood pressure or diabetes still taking baby steps to circumvent their own poor health! And in the end death comes like a thief in the night.... |
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Aug 2022
4:51am, 9 Aug 2022
5,132 posts
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run free
Here is the single-use plastic bags used in the uk gov.uk So yes the plastic bag charge has decreased the number of single use plastic bags used from 2.12 billion to 564 million! |
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Aug 2022
9:07am, 9 Aug 2022
43,235 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Agree rf, and I would vote for parties who would legislate far more aggressively. Some of us Cs are hopefully doing a bit more than baby steps!  But not doing everything, and I'm sure you're right, not enough. Examples of things that I don't do that I could (and reasons why - mostly just laziness and personal convenience, I admit!) * Make food from scratch, instead of buying ready meals (I just don't like cooking!) * Reduce water use (don't even start on the horses!) * Reduce heating oil use (insulate house better, get electric heating, but expensive and disruptive big work) But examples of ones that I almost certainly won't compromise on * Flights to see family - son, gf and grandson are a flight (or very long drive and ferry) away and I like to see them as often as possible. And my wife is from New Zealand. We don't go often but e.g. every 3-4 years, and it is the longest of long haul, of course. Speaking of examples of compromises (I won't say if reasonable). Joe Biden yesterday, after what seems a huge success of a 10 year, $370Bn environmental bill that was passed in the US Senate, took a flight (to Kentucky?) to see impacts of flooding. Is it reasonable that the President of USA takes a flight 400 miles, a 1 hour flight, probably in a plane with only him and staff? My answer to that would be yes, because of his influence and importance of the work he does, for both people and environment? Am I wrong? G
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Aug 2022
9:12am, 9 Aug 2022
43,236 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
And a discussion on why EPC is out of date in its assessment of heat pumps elmhurstenergy.co.uk |
Aug 2022
10:39am, 9 Aug 2022
91,709 posts
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Hanneke
Happy, I have decided not to go on holiday this year, even though I am now allowed again. I used to feel one flight (return) every couple of years was ok, especially as I would go on an eco-trip so to speak, but I really cannot justify it for myself! However: I do want to see my sister as often as I can, in the Netherlands. In stead of flying, I now drive, which is more environmentally friendly and I do feel guilty about the driving but she has cancer. Bad enough I wasn't allowed to see her for two years, when she was seriously bad and dying 🤬🤬🤬 so I understand you do not want to compromise on seeing your family. I didn't implement all measures for myself in one go. It has been a step by step process which, in the next couple of years, culminates in solar and hopefully water self-sufficiency too... But I have been at it for about 40 years!!! Gradually, slowly. OK, things have become much more acute now. 40 years ago I was chained to a nuclear power plant, now I live an almost self sufficient Permaculture lifestyle. By the way, coffee alternatives galore, but nothing beats Coffea Arabica, so I will keep buying beans. As sustainably as possible. Same with cocoa/chocolate. You cannot be 100% "sustainable" it would be too much! And think about how you can harness, quite literally, those horses? Start with their poop, for the garden! Also, you can run a coiled hose under the muck heap and heat your water that way... At least the water for washing down muddy horse legs... And so forth
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Useful Links
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- rf_fozzy: This is quite a good article about how disruptive technology work
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- Carbon Commentary carboncommentary.com
- UK ombudsman for problems with electricity or gas
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