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Jan 2021
4:21pm, 12 Jan 2021
37,033 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
SteveC, it was your recommendation that made me check for tungsten carbide spikes. Durability. The O-rocs are TC too. But I think Andy's concern isn't so much about wear, more about the comfort and the ride of running with them. I wouldn't want to run 15 miles on tarmac in my Nano Spikes either! But for a half mile here and there, no problem.
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Jan 2021
10:48am, 14 Jan 2021
606 posts
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CreatureOfTheHill
_andy Thanks. Still looking for that goldilocks shoe. Impossible we know. What works at car park level, and on the top, with all the in between, well  Artcic Talons are tearing, so will need to decide if we stick with them or experiment next season.
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Jan 2021
11:31am, 14 Jan 2021
37,072 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
CotH - X-talons with the Nano spikes in a bum bag / back pack would cover you from car park to 30 cm snow, imho.
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Jan 2021
11:33am, 14 Jan 2021
37,073 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Actually, let me revise that: any comfortable trail shoe with Kahtoola Nano Spikes attached and left on would cover you from car park bare tarmac to top with ice and 30cm snow.
any comfortable trail shoe with Kahtoola Micro Spikes carried in bum bag or back pack and attached and detached as needed, would cover you from car park bare tarmac to top with even deeper ice and snow.
Imho G
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Jan 2021
2:12pm, 14 Jan 2021
607 posts
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CreatureOfTheHill
Might have to try them...
Very bad experience decades ago with flexible footwear and crampons, which leaves us way of anything *not* built into the shoe.
(Plus, we are not good at remembering to stop to put these sort of things on, so built in is the safer option, even if it is skittish on bare rock )
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Jan 2021
2:21pm, 14 Jan 2021
37,075 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
Fair enough CotH. If you find "add ons" a pain, then I'm sure there will be a shoe option. I like the flexibility personally. Also depends how long your snow is (are you in UK)?
The other thing is gradient. Def the Micros are better for steep ice. If going vertical (or near vertical - i.e. climbing / scrambling on ice, then "real" crampons" would be required.
Aren't "real" climbing crampons still an add on (albeit to a solid boot)?
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Jan 2021
2:40pm, 14 Jan 2021
4,305 posts
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K5 Gus
Never mind near vertical, if going anywhere near steep'ish ice (or hard snow) with any sort of danger below ( long run-out, rocks, or drop-off ), then really should have an axe in hand as well so you can self-arrest a fall.
Like the crampons can be all too easy to have the axe strapped on the rucksac, when it's really needed...........
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Jan 2021
2:49pm, 14 Jan 2021
1,062 posts
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Ally-C
A Winter skills course maybe handy too. All the gear & nae idea.
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Jan 2021
2:51pm, 14 Jan 2021
608 posts
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CreatureOfTheHill
Gus, yup...
New winter pack we have is great.
Much trickier to get the axe of while the pack is on, so we have to watch that one.
Our X-Alp is great for that, but just a little small on volume if you want to carry full kit, and in winter we do.
Real crampons (we have some Grivels somewhere) do require a suitable rated boot. We tend to find we can pick lines that do not need crampons, just find a suitable route.
It's an irrational (probably) fear of microspikes detaching the way old crampons used to on bad boots (30 years ago tbh).
We are Cairngorm adjacent, so it's just stuff for the hill. Quite happy with our locality and not flying.
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Jan 2021
2:53pm, 14 Jan 2021
609 posts
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CreatureOfTheHill
No offence, but we have more hill hours in all seasons logged (not here, but as it were) than most.
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