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Apr 2017
2:38pm, 7 Apr 2017
10,790 posts
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Chrisull
Fenners - Did you read the link about the different genes and the different way we metabolise them?
It's like training. The genes for some people mean they will *never* get any training effect. It is genetics. It will work for some brilliantly yes. It will never work for others.
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Apr 2017
3:09pm, 7 Apr 2017
11,780 posts
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Fenland (Fenners) Runner
Never any training effect? That sounds like an outlier to me?
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Apr 2017
3:10pm, 7 Apr 2017
11,781 posts
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Fenland (Fenners) Runner
I suppose if you have a narrow mind nothing will ever work?
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Apr 2017
3:12pm, 7 Apr 2017
11,782 posts
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Fenland (Fenners) Runner
And the last paragraph sums it up perfectly. They really don't know anything for sure? 
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Apr 2017
3:20pm, 7 Apr 2017
1,658 posts
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RunningInCircles
Hmmm.
Units of ATP via the three energy systems are not equal. Oxidative with fat as a substrate returns _significantly_ more ATP for a given reaction.
Can some people gain more/less benefit according to their ability to tap into this, sure.
But as we all utilise the systems all the time, in different proportions according to the activity, paying no heed to one seems short sighted. It is not as if we are all adapted to _only_ carbohydrates or only fat.
Fenners is also correct in terms of adaptation being a longer term proposition.
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Apr 2017
4:20pm, 7 Apr 2017
10,791 posts
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Chrisull
Not according to the Horizon program a while back - no training effect isn't all that uncommon.
Yes it is the case that no-one is all carbs or all fat BUT - consider TDF rider Romain Bardet who is now purely fat adapted. It is something he is proud of. BUT why is this the outlier in TDF riders, if it was a guaranteed route to success...
And why is Ross Tucker/Sports Scientists so sceptical about it?
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Apr 2017
4:21pm, 7 Apr 2017
10,792 posts
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Chrisull
(about banting, not about Bardet)
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Apr 2017
5:39pm, 7 Apr 2017
1,659 posts
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RunningInCircles
Out in Greece at the moment and on mobile, so cannot easily pull together academic papers etc...
But I will take my reading of large amounts of research and the mechanisms involved etc over the odd TV programme...
Do not confuse training methods and well documented supplement/drug use with the lower level understanding of what is happening in the body.
That said, although physics/chemistry/biology are true for all. The complex number of variables that make up any given individual means that our understanding only gives us guideline set of parameters to begin training. Responding to our progress and constant individualisation/refinement is key. Cookie cutter training methods gives results as varied as the individuals beginning the plan. You will see outliers and clumping which is entirely to be expected.
So do what works for you. Preferably, with the best knowledge you can get 😀
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Apr 2017
7:31pm, 7 Apr 2017
20,259 posts
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eL Bee!
Little John!!
Good to see you, bach!
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Apr 2017
7:56pm, 7 Apr 2017
39 posts
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Julii
I think I'm a lot weaker than other ppl... I mean, I know I have a high VO2Max, but that doesn't translate to power, strength or speed. My cardio numbers are impressive, I just do not have any ability to compete on power or speed. This is impercetibly modifiable as far as I am concerned.
I do not pretend to follow the talk about fat or whatever responses to training, I just know my raw potential is very poor. Even when I was a kid, always slower & weaker no matter how hard I try.
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