The vaporfly thread
88 watchers
Jan 2020
3:04pm, 16 Jan 2020
8,308 posts
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Boab
As much as I am passionate about not buying them for myself, I have come round to the view that the 4%s and the Next%s are just "better" rather than "cheating" Fact! 
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Jan 2020
3:35pm, 16 Jan 2020
10,060 posts
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larkim
Putting questions of patents to one side (as I'm not entirely sure what Nike have and haven't patented about their shoes), I remain surprised that other brands haven't even tried to respond quickly to the VFs. Things are starting to move now, but it has taken much longer than I would have thought.
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Jan 2020
5:11pm, 16 Jan 2020
11,857 posts
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Badger
I'm really torn about buying a pair. I think it would be enough to tip me under 4 hours after 10 years of trying. But I think I want to do that on an even playing field with my former self.
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Jan 2020
5:28pm, 16 Jan 2020
29,831 posts
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SPR
Larkim - Assuming patents aren't involved, it shows it's not as easy as you think it is. I certainly wouldn't run out and buy another brand (even if I was inclined to) just because they said it was their 'vaporfly killer' Nothing is cheating if the rules allow it. The question is should they allow it. I certainly have no issue with more efficient cushioning. The amount of cushioning would be unlikely to be stable (or responsive?) without the plate though. Get rid of the plate and the amount of cushioning is automatically limited I think. Add to that the spring benefits of the plate and I'm not sure it should have been allowable progress. Whatever happens, I think things will be better when it doesn't feel like Nike is the only game in the road racing town. |
Jan 2020
6:40pm, 16 Jan 2020
2,537 posts
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J2R
I have real mixed feelings about the news of this proposed ban. For the last 3-4 years I've been trying to hit a very specific target, a sub-1:20 half marathon, and I've been so, so close - 5 times within 12 seconds, including 1:20:00 last year. Obviously I have thought about buying a pair of the VaporFly shoes, because if they give me anything like the advantage they are purported to, that would take me comfortably inside my target. But now I'm wondering whether the achievement would feel invalidated by having been done in the controversial shoes? Besides this, it kind of annoys me that there is now something which actually gives a big enough advantage that you are effectively hobbling yourself if you line up at the start of a race with other runners who are wearing these and you are not. I don't want to feel obliged to buy a pair. |
Jan 2020
7:15pm, 16 Jan 2020
3,480 posts
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mr d
naturalrunningcenter.com Don't know if this article and podcast have been linked on here before. trailrunnernation.com |
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Jan 2020
7:27pm, 16 Jan 2020
10,064 posts
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larkim
I don't buy the spring argument. The foam is a spring but that's ok, the carbon fibre is a spring but that's not? The other brands might have found it difficult to replicate, but they have been very quiet about complaining about it's legality. |
Jan 2020
7:38pm, 16 Jan 2020
3,287 posts
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K5 Gus
The author in the first link is well mixed up :- - says both Kipchoge (Sub2) and Kosgei (WR) wore a prototype called the Next%. Wrong, Kipchoge wore a prototype called the Alphafly, Kosgei wore a commercially available Next% - says the Next% has 3 carbon plates. Wrong, the Next% has one carbon plate, it's the Alphafly that has 3 - talks about the shoes having "graphite springs". Wrong Not listened to the podcast |
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Jan 2020
8:09pm, 16 Jan 2020
3,481 posts
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mr d
nytimes.com Also a linked NYT article. |
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Jan 2020
10:26pm, 16 Jan 2020
29,832 posts
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SPR
Larkim - It's legal, the rules are what they are now. You might not buy the spring argument but it was explicitly in the rules at one point. Seems logical to me that if cushioning is allowed (without it, many would be unable to run) then finding the best material to do the job is sensible. Inserting a device that may be a spring into a shoe in the 'name' of stability, when the instability is caused by the amount of cushioning you've added is more shaky. Others will have different views and I can see how it would be hard to police allowable inserts. |
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