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19 Jul
9:34pm, 19 Jul 2019
4779 posts
Believe a better soft Brexit deal could have been agreed, and been more representative of the close result - suggest May's agenda was to control it all and try and appease the extremists in her party - rather than cooperate for the nation's good.
19 Jul
9:58pm, 19 Jul 2019
4818 posts
No WS I don't think we should leave. But bear in mind that the reason we haven't left is nothing to do with people who want to remain, it is entirely due to MPs who claim they want to leave but who have actually voted against leaving three times in a row.

When the people who want to leave, actually come up with a plan for leaving, perhaps we will make progress.

Alternatively, maybe people will eventually realise that there isn't a plan that works.
19 Jul
11:30pm, 19 Jul 2019
26956 posts
macca 53
WS’ comments make it feel as though we are back in Feb/Mar again 😀. I suspect he will be right but perhaps March 2020 after another extension is staffed up the wall trying to make parliament agree on something (anything). We then have two years of slow realisation that it was just an illusion peddled by Cameron and followed by Johnson.
12:56pm, 20 Jul 2019
14921 posts
WS - caveat May's deal was as good as we were going to get with her red lines attached. There is no reason why we can't stay in the customs union and the common market, just the politicans can't be bothered to explain why that would be preferable because it's too complicated and too easily impugned as Brexit In Name Only.
2:56pm, 20 Jul 2019
4780 posts
Chris - you've put more succinctly put what I was getting at, May's red lines to try and appease the hard Brexiteers in her party.

The EU seem to be open to extension, if a technical solution to the border controls can be found, then the backstop can be removed from the deal which was the main stumbling block for May's deal passing.

In reality we look a long way from any sort of technological border solution, and it seems likely any extension will not find one. Also as macca suggested - any additional time is unlikely to be used to plan constructively for a no deal contingency either.

It seems there's no place for explanations, discussions or depth these days, it's the battle of the surface soundbites, panzers against the peashooters of rational debate. We can blame Thatcher for that too ;-)

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About This Thread

A place where we can debate politics and along the way tick off all these logical fallacies.