The sub 1:30 half thread
164 watchers
May 2019
1:29pm, 7 May 2019
31,285 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
4 week meso cycles (i.e. you'll see changes in this time) but most plans are structured over 12 or 16 weeks to a race - so some endurance build up, separate to speed build up, race prep which is true sharpening etc. And other training approaches measure improvements in 6 week cycles e.g. Hadd which is HR based training, which advocates a re-baselining (in their case by running a fixed distance at a fixed pace and measuring HR - looking for it to lower for a given pace). So at least 4 weeks and possibly longer, to see improvements, I'd say. Be patient. In my experience it also goes in fits and starts. You feel sluggish for weeks, then suddenly a tougher session feels easy or pace suddenly improves for a mid level effort etc. Keep the faith!  G
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May 2019
1:43pm, 7 May 2019
7,424 posts
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larkim
I suppose with the MP sessions, if they are of no benefit (al all) to a HM runner then they would be of no benefit to a marathon runner. And as we are broadly agreed that they are key to a good marathon, they must do "something", even if it isn't 100% the most specific thing you could do. At this point I harken back to the plans I used to follow (My Asics, now defunct sadly) which had long runs at quite a pace within a HM schedule. Up to 11 miles at something like HMP+20-25s I seem to recall. Which in the end isn't that different to MP, with a small allowance for roundings. If we're doing pace equivalence, if I was targetting 3:10 for a marathon that would be long runs with 10-15 miles at 7:10-7:20 for the MP elements. If that was alongside a 1:30 plan, those sorts of runs would give me confidence that 13.1 at 6:50 was doable and is about in line with what MyAsics would have had me doing. (I know strictly 3:10 and 1:30 aren't bang on comparable but double plus 10 isn't a bad rule of thumb. There are many ways to skin a cat, so perhaps the underlying thing is to do *some* of your long runs with *some* greater effort or speed within them. Whether that is progressing the pace, strictly doing MP running, Daniel's style 2 on, 1 off, 3 on, 1 off etc. All point to there being some benefit in doing some of the longer miles at a pace other than the pure old LSR pace. Though all also agree there is benefit in those runs too. |
May 2019
1:47pm, 7 May 2019
4,390 posts
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jda
I actually don't think MP is much use for a marathon runner, OTOH most of my threshold efforts are probably closer to MP in terms of speed anyway. But in principle MP is too stressful to do large volumes of and insufficiently stressful to properly train your physiology.
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May 2019
1:57pm, 7 May 2019
7,425 posts
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larkim
I don't think anyone is suggesting doing volumes of it that are too stressful. I know there are views that MP is neither one thing nor another in terms of specificity, but I don't think Pfitz puts it in his plans as "junk" mileage either - he must have a view on its benefits?
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May 2019
7:41pm, 8 May 2019
1,474 posts
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Brunski
OTG - My advice for a HM would be to build mileage first, if you currently run 30 try to get to 40; 50-60; etc. Once the mileage is ‘there’ I start sprinkling in some tempo (similar to WW I like to build it at around HM pace upto about 7 or 8), then add a few intervals/fartlek midway through the cycle and end with sharpening (short intervals like a 30/30 workout) in the final weeks dropping the tempo/threshold back a bit. Also try upping the effort runs over a period of time. I’d not go building from 40 steady miles to 50 AND including the sessions until the mileage felt comfortable. Doubling up is a good way to add mileage for me. |
May 2019
10:45pm, 8 May 2019
1,008 posts
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Oscar the grouch
Thanks. Peak miles are around 50 per week and that's ok when I do it. Sounds like good advice, Brunski, thank you
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May 2019
8:49am, 16 May 2019
7,512 posts
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larkim
Weather is looking good for Chester, so just the admin around getting kids taken care of and picking up my wife's number on the day (seems to have got lost in the post) to srt out for race day. Couldn't do the P&D race-pace simulation run on Tuesday or Wednesday evening this week, so shift it to this morning - which now feels alarmly close to race day - but managed 2 miles in the 6:20s within a 7 mile run on legs which didn't feel too well woken up, so hopefully 6:35--6:40 race pace should feel a little more comfortable. 1:26:25 at Conwy is the target to aim for - I won't be devastated if I can only hang on for sub 88, but recent 5ks suggest I'm in the ball-park for getting close to a PB. I'll bimble around a few miles tomorrow night and then hopefully a few on Saturday too (though I've got a volunteer role distributing pot plants on Saturday am and I think a trip to Chester Zoo in the afternoon, so perhaps spending a little too much time on feet for ideal race prep). Then three weeks unstructured before P&D 18w kicks in for Chester mara
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May 2019
10:06am, 16 May 2019
31,391 posts
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HappyG(rrr)
I'm sure you'll do well larks. Dial in to that 6:3x pace after a few mins and then just try and keep it steady and enjoy it. Pick people to chase, targets to push, and don't leave anything out there. Last 3 miles is a parkrun - give it da beanz and go PB! Chester mara in autumn?! Did I miss that announcement on 3:15 thread?! That's cool. G
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May 2019
11:05am, 16 May 2019
7,514 posts
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larkim
Back end of last year my 2019 plan came together as:- - winter road racing - 5k PB attempt Mid Cheshire - HM PB attempt Chester - Mara PB attempt Chester (aiming for GFA "just in case" I feel like doing VMLM) - Mara fun around some mountain roads Snowdonia I think that was all sorted by December as the Snowdonia booking had to be done at that point, and signing up to that was a bit impetuous!! Winter road racing was good, but picked up a few niggles on the way (not down to running I don't think) so 5k PB attempt went by the wayside. So spring comes to a close with Chester this weekend. My 18:35 at the weekend translates into 1:25:25, though whether I'll convert that or not we'll see. It's a flatish course, relatively downhill in the second half (with a climb for the last mile), and weather is spot on so I won't get a better chance to prove that I can run a HM faster than I did at Conwy with the git-big hill in the middle of it. |
May 2019
11:23am, 16 May 2019
14,576 posts
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Bazoaxe
Larks. My 18:50 converted to 1:23 and 3:02. Just saying.
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