Elite Athletics Thread

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Uyuni
Uyuni
Apr 2018
1:44pm, 19 Apr 2018
1,353 posts
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Uyuni
I’m sorry but it makes a mockery of the race. The mens pacers in the mens race don’t step off the course 2k from the finish – if they could run 40k at WR pace they would carry on and go for the win! Again the comparison would be Breaking 2 as their pacers rotated in and out so they could stick with Kipchoge for the whole way, which as we know wasn’t a race anyway.

Are the male pacers in the womens race tomorrow contracted to individual runners or are they running say 2:15 pace, with some more running 2:20 pace. I presume that they are just there just for Keitany and Dibaba so as far as everyone else goes tough! Compare to Boston where there was an “unfavoured” winner. In London she would have had no chance unless she could have “negotiated” to inherit Flanagan’s pacers when she blew a gasket. Not that she needed any which kind of proves the point.

It just seems daft that you have a womens only elite race, starting 45 mins before everyone else in order to promote womens racing, and all you see is a few massive hired hands shepherding their “charges” for as long as possible. At what point are Keitany and Dibaba actually going to start racing each other or is that not the point?
Spideog
Spideog
Apr 2018
1:46pm, 19 Apr 2018
88 posts
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Spideog
Yep, strictly speaking they are not supposed to...but of course you often see them being spoken to by the elites in the various groups and pace being adjusted on the fly. We are just not meant to notice. ;)
Spideog
Spideog
Apr 2018
1:51pm, 19 Apr 2018
89 posts
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Spideog
It still makes sense to have the womens race run separately, even with male pacemakers, as otherwise the race would get no coverage on TV. Whilst there are male pacemakers they can be ignored as far as TV coverage is concerned. If you had the elite women running in with the masses though it's a very different thing as far as covering the race, or even finding where the leading women are amongst the men.
Uyuni
Uyuni
Apr 2018
2:03pm, 19 Apr 2018
1,354 posts
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Uyuni
I agree which is why there shouldn't be loads of blokes lining up with them. I reckon it would look better, and be no less artificial having one group of female pacers to do the first half and a different squad to do the second, dropping out at say 20 miles and then let them get on with it
SPR
SPR
Apr 2018
2:16pm, 19 Apr 2018
26,010 posts
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SPR
Uyuni - that's worse than having male pacers!
SPR
SPR
Apr 2018
2:17pm, 19 Apr 2018
26,011 posts
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SPR
Farah is there to test himself in a race not just time trial.
larkim
larkim
Apr 2018
2:21pm, 19 Apr 2018
4,452 posts
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larkim
I just don't think it stands up to reason that sacrificial male pacemakers are allowed, irrespective of whether they find the pacing hard or easy to achieve, whereas women aren't to be allowed the same privilege simply because there aren't enough fast women around.

Last year, 437 men ran marathon times within 11 minutes of the fastest time int he world.

Last year, 100 women ran times within the fastest time in the world.

Even better as an example, last year 131 men ran HM times inside 61:30 (half way even pacing to a WR). Last year only 21 women raced HM times inside 67:42, the half way split to take down Paula's record.

There simply aren't enough fast women around to do the job that the surplus of fast males do. When participation & performance depth levels are equal for both I'd see more sense in a "women's only" pacing approach, but until then I don't think it is wrong in terms of the performance it helps the best women to extract from themselves to allow male pacemaking support, with the only concern from my part that there should be a max distance that can be paced to.
larkim
larkim
Apr 2018
2:27pm, 19 Apr 2018
4,453 posts
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larkim
@SPR - yes, that's true of course, but unlike Boston and unlike WC finals that Farah has raced in, we know with almost 100% certainty that the first half of the race will be run to world record pace by a large group of runners. I don't think Farah has ever got to half way in a race at WR pace, so even if he wants to make it a race for position he can't ignore the time trial nature of what he'll be up against.

Put Farah up against the Boston field last weekend and I wonder where he'd have finished? Put him in any world championship marathon race and I think he'd be there at about 25 miles with a shot at a medal.

But London, Berlin etc just aren't run like that, if he sits on the back of the lead group (as he does in 10000m races) he'll be 2 or 3 seconds off world record pace and he'll be committing to having to maintain that to the end or at worst have only a very small deterioration in pace if ultimately he doesn't posses WR pace or talent. All the logic would suggest that trying to go hard in the first half if you really can't expect to maintain it to the end is a recipe for a disastrous race. But equally, if he sits back and goes through half way in 62:30 and gets out of himself the best time he could hope for it will be seen (by the media) as a disappointment unless that turns into a strong 2nd or 3rd place, overtaking everyone but Kipchoge in the last 3 or 4 miles or so.
Uyuni
Uyuni
Apr 2018
2:31pm, 19 Apr 2018
1,355 posts
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Uyuni
The mens pacers in the mens race don't run 40k. The winner, and potential new WR holder has to run the last quarter of the race either by himself or racing someone else who could take the glory. It sounds like the set up on Sunday for the 2 elite women will be more like Breaking2 than the equivalent in the mens race, and to me that devalues it in comparison to the womens only WR.
SPR
SPR
Apr 2018
2:32pm, 19 Apr 2018
26,012 posts
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SPR
Max distance is artificial, but the whole thing is. The issue is all created because they aren't in the same race. In a men's race, a pacer still with you with 2km to go is someone to worry about.

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