Elite Athletics Thread

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Uyuni
Uyuni
Apr 2018
12:14pm, 19 Apr 2018
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Uyuni
I guess that depends on what his primary motivation is. Unlike us lot, that isn’t I imagine an ambition to run a certain time, or even to run the best time he can but rather to see if he mix it with Kipchoge et al and see what happens.

If he really wanted to break say the European record and was uncertain if he could do it then there would be much lower key races he could do a time trail in. No-one, I hope, would criticise him for giving it real go at the weekend even if it did go a bit pear shaped at the end, but I fear they might if he dropped off the lead group in the first 5k and was never a factor in the race, even if he did break the British or Euro record as a result.
postieboy
postieboy
Apr 2018
12:16pm, 19 Apr 2018
5,110 posts
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postieboy
I notice there will be male pacemakers for the elite women so Mary Keitany and Tirunesh Diabada can have a crack at Paula Radcliffe's WR. I'll be very interested to see how close they can get and not forgetting conditions will be a lot more favourable for them setting off 45 minutes earlier than the rest.
larkim
larkim
Apr 2018
12:22pm, 19 Apr 2018
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larkim
Yes, very easy for to overlook the elite women's race with my interest in Farah, but that should be a corker, especially if both Keitany and Dibaba go with WR pace. I'm glad they have gone with the male pacemakers concept as the depth in pacemakers just isn't there for women to be on WR pace, whereas there is such depth in the top end of men's racing that it's not hard to find a 2:08 runner who would be an "also ran" if they were in the elite race.

My fear over Mo's pacing is that if in the end he splits 61:15 and runs in to 2:08/2:09 in glorious failure then the narrative will be he's crap at marathoning. Whereas what might actually be the case is that he's left a 2:05 chance go begging because he got greedy with the early pace. In essence, he's arguably not in a position to be allowed to pace himself to the best time possible, unless his best time possible is right up there in the 2:03-2:04 range.
Uyuni
Uyuni
Apr 2018
12:36pm, 19 Apr 2018
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Uyuni
I’m not a fan of pacemakers in general, and definitely not of men in womens races. At least in paced mens races there can be a thin pretence that they are all part of the same event, and the pacing itself is something of a challenge as they’ve still got to run 30k or so in an insane time. Having a couple of blokes running within themselves escorting a tiny woman and then casually stepping off the road a few hundred yards from the finish looks pretty terrible from a perspective of promoting womens sport.
larkim
larkim
Apr 2018
12:48pm, 19 Apr 2018
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larkim
I don't disagree about how it looks, but the reality is that there are plenty of men available who can pace through 30km in the men's race at WR pace. The few women in the world who can pace at WR pace to 30km are probably already in the race and are "racing". The women targeting the WR don't get any disproportionate benefit from the pacers being either male rather than female unless they pace all the way through to 42km (which does happen, and I do disagree with as that isn't feasible for the men). I'd like to see pacers limited to stepping off at, say, 30 or 35km for both genders if we are going to allow pacing in distance races.

It seems to me to be grossly unfair to deny some women the opportunity to run a paced WR simply because other women aren't good enough.

Whether or not major marathons should be paced at all is a different debate altogether - we saw in Boston that that can create a great exciting race.

London is unusual in that the field depth means there is usually a great race still going on at about 30-35km almost despite the pacers, but Berlin is often quite sterile as there is a focus on one man and their pacer (though of course, not last year).
Uyuni
Uyuni
Apr 2018
12:58pm, 19 Apr 2018
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Uyuni
Promote the womens only world record instead then. Having male pacemakers makes it about as relevant as the Breaking 2 thing, and no-one thinks Kipchoge has the WR (yet!)
Spideog
Spideog
Apr 2018
1:23pm, 19 Apr 2018
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Spideog
No problem with the male pacemakers for the women. Perfectly reasonable as said because there just isn't the depth of talent for them to have women doing the pace making roles. Makes it just the same as for the mens event then as there is zero difference between a male pacemaker stepping off the course 2km from the line in the mens race or the womens race.

What probably isn't going to be "fair" though is how many pacemakers they have, and will there be any coverage of pacemakers for anyone who falls off the lead group? In the mens race there will be several groups of pacemakers and those for the chasing group will work to drag those runners back towards the lead, if they want are able. Will they have pacers for the rest of the field as well in toe womens race?
larkim
larkim
Apr 2018
1:31pm, 19 Apr 2018
4,449 posts
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larkim
Hmm, disagree to a point. With the exception of the gender of the pacemakers, Paula's WR is as valid a WR as the men's one is.

The Breaking2 thing was different mainly because of a few key things:-
- deliberately wind shielding pacers (I don't think the car did much based on what I've read about the science stuff)
- fresh wind shielding pacers dropping in
- far more pace makers than are allowed
- mobile refreshments freely available

Those things specifically set it apart as not being compliant with the rules for road racing that have been in place for years now.

Radcliffe's WR had none of those (and she would argue she ran to the side of the pacers that she had in the various races too). If Keitany just follows 2 male pacemakers, that's good enough for the WR for me, though I would at the very least like to see her make the pace independently for the last 7.2km.

I think there is a validity to distinguishing between completely mixed races, where a leading woman can dart between various sub-elite men as temporary pacers in a way that an elite man wouldn't have available to them. But in terms of pacing, providing it is not done to excess (i.e. not all the way to the tape) I have no issue with their genders.
larkim
larkim
Apr 2018
1:31pm, 19 Apr 2018
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larkim
(Was disagreeing with Uyuni not Spideog, just for clarity!)
larkim
larkim
Apr 2018
1:40pm, 19 Apr 2018
4,451 posts
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larkim
@Spideog, strictly speaking the pacers shouldn't pace anyone back on if they fall off, they should be pacing to a defined schedule / pace. IAAF rules allow for up to 3 pacemakers for each defined pace, I'd probably expect to see three groups in the elite male and three groups in the elite female.

Can't see any info for London about them, but I'd imagine a 2:03 pace, then a 2:06 and a 2:10 for the men, with a 2:15, 2:20 and 2:25 set for the women?

Of course, you might engage the pacers and instruct them, but at least one of them will have a bad day and fall off, one will get distracted and run too fast, and one will end up as a personal pacemaker for someone needing to run back on - pacers don't always go to plan!

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