Waterproof Running Jacket (trail / ultra?) advice

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Kieren Nov 2020 3:02pm, 15 Nov 2020 4,038 posts	0 Kieren Test run #1 10.5KM in 56:10 at roughly 5:21min/KM (almost 50:50 between heart rate zones 2 & 3) Medium light rain. High humidity and gusty winds. I wore tights (1st time this year). I run hot so normally would be I'm shorts until the lower single digits. As a base layer I wore a Uniqlo heattech top. I bought this as light top / change of clothes to pack when traveling light, not to run in. In hindsight, it is not a good base layer for active wear (34% rayon, 33% polyester, 28% acrylic, 5% Spandex). Rayon holds on to water, so is not wicking. I didn't know this, I assumed heatec would keep you dry to keep warm? Not the case. The heattech is affordable and plain colours so will go back to intended use as a light carry change of top. I need to try again with a better wicking baselayer to see if the wicking of top & jacket would leave me any drier? The external humidity was very high and needs to be higher inside the jacket to wick so perhaps on these conditions nothing would work well? Any experoe8 opinions on this. I wasn't cold at least but not a real test. I bumped up the contrast a bit to show sweat. I ran easy pace for me 5:20 min/KM and was able to stay comfortable. The hood is not stowable but is not much of a distraction on the wind gusts. Towards the end of the run, I put the hood up which gets warm. I opened the pockets to vent but didn't notice any cooling. A longer run with more rain is needed. The jacket material is stretchy. To me it feels similar to my btwin (decathlon) cycling jacket which is also stretchy & has a 20,000 HH rating. Maybe it is the same? I don't know. There were some darker patches on the fabric so I am not sure if the dwr coating is working to bead off, or if this is what wetting out looks like? So far I'm happy with it. I'd like to be able to get out for at least an hour in heavy rain but may also just stand in the shower if I don't get my rain this week.
Homer Nov 2020 5:24pm, 15 Nov 2020 13,818 posts	0 Homer I'm not sure any base layer would be dry? Sweat goes into the base layer, most wicks through and hopefully escapes but there is always something left? (at least in my experience) You ran in the rain with a jacket on ands isn't become a personal puddle of sweat... probably a good result?
Kieren Nov 2020 9:16pm, 15 Nov 2020 4,039 posts	0 Kieren Rayon doesn't wick - that was the problem here. It's worse than cotton for water retention (which I didn't know - I hadn't even looked at what was in heattech. Whilst not an issue for yesterdays run, if I rolled an ankle in the middle of nowhere, the wet layer and convection cooling could be a risk. ======== A quick run down for anyone following the thread that might not know & a handy reference for myself. Purpose: A base layer is supposed to stop you getting cold (not the same as keeping you warm). For the most part, that means keeping you dry. As part of a layering system, the base layer should help move sweat from your skin to evaporate - which waterproof jackets, they breath through a membrane so moisture needs to be be a humid vapour - not skin to jacket contact ( hence 3 layer or the 0.5 layer in most shells - however a long sleeve base layer should help this process. sweating is great to cool us down but rapid cooling of the skin through wet clothes can be dangerous if in the elements, so a base later should not retain water. Membrane jackets need humidity / body heat to breath through the membrane, so a good base layer should dry from body heat when less active if the internal humidity it greater than the external. If that layer holds on the moisture, you may cool too much as the wetted out base layer might not dry. When active you might saturate / get wet if you exceed the breathability rating of the jacket which is easy to do, thats where venting to dump heat is useful if you are too hot. -------- Common fabrics: 1. Merino wool Keeps you warm when wet, naturally wicks and tends not so smell. Thin layers are fragile and can be too hot for active use. It retains some water & heat. 2. Nylon (polymide) A replacement to silk (stockings). It's durable, soft, flexible, stretchy and not insulating It doesn't retain water or much heat but will hold more water than Polyester. It wont smell 3. Polyester Hydrophobic, so wont absorb water. A good use in fleeces as water will pass through a warm layer. Since it wicks so well, it doesn't require body heat to work It doesn't stretch and can develop a pong / smell (newer polyesters can have stretch and be similar to nylon) 3. Rayon (maybe also viscose derivative) cellulose based artificial silk. Common to be used in curtains, carpets, sheets. It is colour fast and will hold onto deep colour dyes. It's breathable but the same quality that hold on the dye, also hold on to moisture at twice the rate of cotton. It's mainly added to fabrics to make them feel comfortable. Acrylic Soft & holds warmth - good for jumpers. It's hydrophobic but will hold on to smells / pongs. Often used as a cashmere / wool alternative --------- Blends: Many outdoor brands are blending fabrics to get benefits of both, for example brands like smartwool blend merino wool with nylon to add durability. 37.5 Technology adds carbon (coal?) to nylon which absorbs moisture - so this should draw moisture away from the skin and into the nylon which repells it. As it is woven into the fabric, the surface area is increased and should aid evaporation Polygeine adds silver ( a natural antibacterial) to nylon which stops it smelling. Useful for multiday wears without washing Many brands (Rab, OMM, Montain, DHB etc) will blend some or all of these together at varying rates. I only have polyester long sleeve running tops but will probably invest in a one of the newer blends
Derby Tup Nov 2020 9:24pm, 15 Nov 2020 47,728 posts	0 Derby Tup Get a Helly. 100% polypropylene
Derby Tup Nov 2020 9:28pm, 15 Nov 2020 47,729 posts	0 Derby Tup Polygiene is a chemical addititive or ‘finish’, not a fibre I find Merino holds onto too much moisture for running. Polyester is better but I love Helly Hensen tops in polypropylene. The old problem with them absorbing smells seems to have been eradicated nowadays
Derby Tup Nov 2020 9:33pm, 15 Nov 2020 47,730 posts	0 Derby Tup By far the most common end-use for acrylic in sportswear is as a wool substitute in knitted beanie hats and gloves
rf_fozzy Nov 2020 9:34pm, 15 Nov 2020 12,261 posts	0 rf_fozzy I wore my Kamelika smock on t'moor this morning. It was good. As usual
Kieren Nov 2020 12:58am, 16 Nov 2020 4,040 posts	0 Kieren Do you get hot in the Helly, Derby Tup? I read the description but notes it's an insulator. I run hot so don't think it would suit me. Lots seem to swear by HH though which is a good sign. The innov8 base layer (£50) seems decent but Wiggles DHB is half the price at £25 , with 37.5 Tech and silvadur (similar to Polygiene) added to the polyester. Both have mesh panels to help cooling. The OMM have a similar top also reduced at £25 on wiggle & OMM sites. wiggle.co.uk Met Office says no rain for me until next weekend for me
Derby Tup Nov 2020 9:19am, 16 Nov 2020 47,736 posts	0 Derby Tup The HH Lifa tops are very light and they aren’t really warm as such. They are actually lighter than many ‘tech’ t-shirts. £25-ish is you shop around op-line
Kieren Nov 2020 12:50pm, 16 Nov 2020 4,041 posts	0 Kieren Thanks. About £25 is my go to price. I've gone down a size in lockdown so keen to replace old kit with new stuff that wont smell after an easy run which should mean I need less kit.