Ultra training for beginners

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HappyG(rrr) Nov 2022 5:17pm, 6 Nov 2022 44,523 posts	0 HappyG(rrr) In ultras, longer than 50K, unless you are a world champ, then hills are a walk break, are they not? And use hills and walk breaks for eating? G
paulcook Nov 2022 6:59pm, 6 Nov 2022 2,022 posts	0 paulcook I saw an interview once with a race winner who basically said he runs hills that he can see the top of, and not those he can't. Probably not a hard and fast rule depending on your ability, and the nature of the actual course, but certainly demonstrates you don't have to be running all the hills.
flyingfinn Nov 2022 7:37pm, 6 Nov 2022 3,546 posts	0 flyingfinn I saw an interview once with a race winner who basically said he runs hills that he can see the top of, and not those he can't. Probably not a hard and fast rule depending on your ability, and the nature of the actual course, but certainly demonstrates you don't have to be running all the hills. I'd treat any 'rule' like that with a huge degree of scepticism. Doing the LL100 I've twice been passed by the leader of the LL50 whilst climbing Garburn out of Kentmere. Two different people and they were both running (and continued to do so all the way up as far as I could see). You certainly can't see the top of Garburn from the bottom, it's steep in places and pretty rough in places. All that told me is that if folk have the fitness to run a climb without going deeply into the red they will. And that's the only thing that any individual can use to guide themselves. You have to understand what too hard for you feels like in a race of whatever distance your in. That comes from training and racing but can be guided by understanding your HR zones (determined for you by experiment not by using 'age related' estimates). And if in doubt in an ultra be pessimistic about what you can run. It is likely to reward you in the long run. A little game I've played in the LL100 is to note the numbers of some of the unlikely characters running the first few steep sections out of Coniston ahead of me. And then look up their finishing time!
Pothunter Nov 2022 7:44pm, 6 Nov 2022 6,868 posts	0 Pothunter The other thing I’d add is that the same hill can (and will!) feel different on another day so just because you did / didn’t run up all the way last time doesn’t mean you have to do the same this time. All about managing the red zone.
flanker Nov 2022 8:29pm, 6 Nov 2022 20,747 posts	0 flanker I regular do that heading out of Coniston on the L100 too ff, often with trying to guess where I'll catch them. It's usually when they are waiting for the bus in Buttermere or Braithwaite. On the L100 I know I can happily trot most of the climbs around the Glenderaterra valley (once up SGL) n good years and on bad years I'll walk all of them. You have to race to feel (PRE), especially on the long stuff, else it'll come back and bite you later.
geordiegirl Nov 2022 10:45pm, 6 Nov 2022 19,092 posts	0 geordiegirl In ultras, longer than 50K, unless you are a world champ, then hills are a walk break, are they not? And use hills and walk breaks for eating? G This is my understanding so ultra training skills - ascent / descent I thought champion walk the ups with some techniques to best line etc but they all ran… even though Nicky Spinks day before said she walks every hill! Naomi & I both said when we di WHW we will walk uphills we won’t be stressing. Confused but feeling better thanks fetchies. That said I will try ro work on hill strength & fitness
geordiegirl Nov 2022 10:49pm, 6 Nov 2022 19,093 posts	0 geordiegirl Pressed send before I said you do t know how invaluable your comments have been in making me feel less of an imposter that I felt last week. I don’t think I was their intent but I’ll try to work on my weaknesses thank you seriously thank you ❤️
UltraDunc Nov 2022 11:06pm, 6 Nov 2022 15,756 posts	0 UltraDunc I’ve thought if my running pace slows so much going up that if I can maintain the same pace marching then that will save me some energy.
Badger Nov 2022 11:36pm, 6 Nov 2022 15,700 posts	0 Badger I've overtaken people going uphill when I was walking fast and they were running before now, so would agree. I feel I'd gain a lot more time more easily by improving my descent technique than improving my climbing (I regularly race with one friend who I can match uphill, just about outpace on the flat, can't see her for dust on the downhills)
UltraDunc Nov 2022 1:35am, 7 Nov 2022 15,759 posts	0 UltraDunc I was told to sit in on descending, feels unnatural but is effective