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Jun 2021
11:54am, 23 Jun 2021
1,363 posts
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Vixx
"transplaining" is a better word....
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Jun 2021
11:56am, 23 Jun 2021
20,109 posts
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Bazoaxe
This is a very difficult debate and one in which I dont believe you can answer without affecting one or other (or indeed both) of the athletes.
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Jun 2021
11:58am, 23 Jun 2021
14,876 posts
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larkim
But if I'm a man I can "mansplain" but as I'm not a trans individual surely I should be "non-transplaining."? 
@Fopp - I don't agree. The issue with progressive attitudes is that those who don't share them need persuading that they should. And progress should continue.
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Jun 2021
12:01pm, 23 Jun 2021
1,364 posts
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Vixx
larkim - I see it that way as everyone who is not trans seems to have an opinion on what it is like to actually BE trans.
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Jun 2021
12:08pm, 23 Jun 2021
7,875 posts
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The Great Raemondo
It is also surely to be hoped that with greater awareness and less hostility towards the existence of trans people, fewer and fewer will have to endure the wrong puberty and the already incredibly tiny number of instances where these questions of 'fairness' arise will shrink even further.
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Jun 2021
12:12pm, 23 Jun 2021
42,257 posts
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DocM
Monty, i dont come on this thread believing i have any special insight, I come one here as i want to learn and understand from people with experience beyond my own. Im very grateful to those who offer honest views from a point of understanding and for those less informed who are willing to offer debate from a point of view which is not fixed.
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Jun 2021
12:13pm, 23 Jun 2021
7,169 posts
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paul the builder
I think there are plenty of people who are both aware, and entirely un-hostile towards the existence of trans people. And yet see a complexity, a conflict, in allowing transwomen to compete in women's sports. Several posts in the last few pages from thoughtful posters. I'll add my voice to those too. It seems impossible to me to be both 100% inclusive and 100% guaranteed fair.
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Jun 2021
12:14pm, 23 Jun 2021
14,877 posts
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larkim
I recognise that Vixx. Some voices should be louder than others in conversations like this.
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Jun 2021
12:45pm, 23 Jun 2021
1,365 posts
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Vixx
I think the main problem is that research is slightly behind the curve as there's not much research that HAS been done to be able to look at how a transwoman's speed/muscle tissue/strength may decrease over time as they take hormones and/or have genital surgery, so we only have individual stories and nothing that can be put into a relatively hard and fast set of rules. There currently IS research being done, and hopefully that will be able to help define how this argument can be resolved.
I know of many transwomen athletes who actively moan at their losing of speed/strength as they go onto hormones, but you can't have it all ways - going onto oestrogen WILL cause a loss in muscle mass and thus strength and speed. But yet studies are showing that biological women are beginning to take huge strides (no pun intended) out of ultramarathons - and the longer the distance the more likely it seems that a woman can/will win.
Transwomen are not allowed to have any testosterone in their bodies when they compete, but yet Caster Semenya CAN have testosterone in her system but cannot compete in her favoured distances. Serena Williams is quite muscular and powerful, but I bet her testosterone levels have never been checked. There are probably other examples, but at the moment, sport is again being used to beat transgender people around the head. There are not enough trans people competing at the sharp end, so those that can/do are highlighted (even though they aren't winning things outright every week) and the resulting pressure/hatred is stopping regular trans people from even considering taking up exercise, and that's not good for many reasons.
As a transman, I have had NO benefit to my times when running. Is that down to the T, is it lack of effective training, or no genetic talent? We aren't even considered as we are not a threat to anyone.
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Jun 2021
12:49pm, 23 Jun 2021
276 posts
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Fopp
Larks, that's where we'd fundamentally disagree, progressive attitudes doesn't always mean it's fair or right, in fact there is an obvious victim in all of this nonsense.
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