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Aug 2019
5:26pm, 14 Aug 2019
9,004 posts
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rf_fozzy
Jovi. There is a simple solution to that. Unisex changing facilities with cubicles. As are now common at most new leisure facilities.
Forgive my ignorance, but I also don't know what a "safe space" is really. I've never seen anywhere actively defined as a "safe space"
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Aug 2019
5:27pm, 14 Aug 2019
13,616 posts
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Serendippily
I have found this thread both interesting and upsetting by turn. I am always wary of the arguments which are phrased about what is normal rather than what is fair. It is the fair that is important
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Aug 2019
5:31pm, 14 Aug 2019
9,005 posts
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rf_fozzy
"I realise that genuine transgender athletes will not want to share women but unless we debate the issues women may have with male b9dies being in their teams then it leaves the door open for abuses by non transgender men taking advantage of the potential to gain access under the transgender banner. To say they won't is naive IMO. Again this would make things worse rather than better for genuine transgender people. "
Ok. Perhaps you could answer my Qs earlier then? As I raised these points.
But to take your Qs/comments:
[we] "may have with male b9dies being in their teams" - I'm sure we already do. Why is this an issue?
" it leaves the door open for abuses by non transgender men taking advantage of the potential to gain access under the transgender banner." - what's the evidence for this happening widely? I'm sure it is on occasion. As I'm sure there are people taking performance enhancing substances in non-elite sport. But how big an issue is it?
To come to my main point - yes, you're probably right, but why should we 'panic' about it? Can we not just be tolerant and accept that somethings *might* happen, solve them as they do in a respectful manner?
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Aug 2019
5:31pm, 14 Aug 2019
3,468 posts
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westmoors
I have also found thread interesting and informative. My conclusion is we can't please everybody all of the time.
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Aug 2019
5:33pm, 14 Aug 2019
13,618 posts
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Serendippily
I would agree fozzy
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Aug 2019
5:35pm, 14 Aug 2019
4,034 posts
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1step2far
I must say i've learnt alot from this thread.
But I do have to say changing rooms aren't a safe place and Jovi you're incredibly privileged if you are able to think they are... As a (butch- even though I hate the description it's true) gay woman I've been attacked several times in changing rooms... by other women. I can get changed in seconds out of fear that any second someone will accuse me of looking wrongly at them or accuse me 'perving them'. Or will fly for me and assault me physically and verbally.
Trans people are not a threat. No more than anyone else is.
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Aug 2019
5:45pm, 14 Aug 2019
2,202 posts
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TomahawkMike
I am sad to hear that, 1step2far. Not nice at all.
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Aug 2019
5:49pm, 14 Aug 2019
3,036 posts
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Raemond
( :hug: 1step2far, that's awful)
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Aug 2019
5:54pm, 14 Aug 2019
4,035 posts
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1step2far
A few examples... I've had lifeguards called to 'check' I'm female at A swimming pool. I've had a bouncer try and remove me from toilets at a nightclub. I try and wear my kit under my clothes but if I have to strip I always change in the corner nearest the exit and keep my eyes down as I've had occasions where if I've made eye contact I get the most disgusted looks. I've even had a bouncer grab my chest to prove I was female. What saddens me most is that world is far more accepting of 'gay' than 'trans' I know so Many have it far worse than me. Changing rooms are quite frankly hell on earth for me.
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Aug 2019
5:57pm, 14 Aug 2019
783 posts
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Trin
That's awful 1step2far, so sad to read this xx
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Gender identity, please help change
Jun 2021