The Shape of Water - (not the fish-man film) - June 2020 Book Group discussion thread

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Little Nemo
Little Nemo
Jun 2020
1:03pm, 26 Jun 2020
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Little Nemo
Ooh, I've been quite harsh! :-)

And don't worry Night-owl, it was still a good book to try!
Diogenes
Diogenes
Jun 2020
2:00pm, 26 Jun 2020
50,333 posts
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Diogenes
I wouldn't say that, LN, your comments are quite similar to my thoughts, and I gave it 4 too.
Diogenes
Diogenes
Jun 2020
2:26pm, 26 Jun 2020
50,340 posts
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Diogenes
My Goodreads review:

I’m not sure if this is badly written book, or just badly translated. I suspect it's a bit of both. The character of Montalbano is the best thing in it, but every so often he is forced to utter some of the worst dialogue ever given to a leading man. Then there is a bit about a nipple seeming to peer about an unfamiliar room. At the end Montalbano has to explain the plot to a non-participant so the reader might be sure what’s been going on, yet much remains shapeless and illogical.
Night-owl
Night-owl
Jun 2020
2:35pm, 26 Jun 2020
34,050 posts
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Night-owl
It's ok LN

I wonder if it's because it was the first book wonder if the style improved over the years
Columba
Columba
Jun 2020
9:06pm, 26 Jun 2020
19,930 posts
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Columba
I thought the peering nipple was a bit odd, too.
Peregrinator
Peregrinator
Jul 2020
8:20am, 19 Jul 2020
633 posts
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Peregrinator
The Shape of Water

Note to self - write the review immediately after reading the book - not a month later! There was something about a handbag with a torn clasp, a hide-away villa, a dead politician and an expensive broach.

I was so pleased that Night-Owl chose this, as I know the Inspector Montalbano TV series, and wondered how the books compared. At school the Careers Advisor never suggested becoming a police detective in Sicily: which is odd, as on TV it looks a great job. You have to view the occasional dead body, but morning espresso on the balcony of your sea-front apartment, lunchtime swims in the sea to mull over tricky problems with your investigations, a girlfriend who pops down from Genoa every-so-often to clear up the current crime conundrum, seemed to compensate. But then there's the sex - or rather the sexism. I mean - it’s not the 1970's - no woman gets her bottom pinched, but everything up to that. Somewhere among the suspects, victims or witnesses are inevitably young women with long legs and short dresses. In one episode Montalbano has to find out more about someone travelling on a tour bus. Of the passengers aboard, the pensioners are all told to push off, but the young female tour guide gets interviewed by Montalbano over a sea-food dinner. And a stocky build, paunch and receding hairline clearly does it for Italian TV women. As an ectomorph I wouldn't have a chance......

TSOW had all that, with more direct language, and Mafia connections (absent from the TV series because Luigi hinted they wouldn't be a good idea). I liked the way it ended with three outcomes, that still preserved an element of justice. I'm probably forgetting the things I didn't like, because I want to think I might still have a second career as a police inspector in Sicily.

One day I will work out what exactly I want in a translation, but remember being not too impressed by this one. There is an Italian adage "traduttore, traditore" ("translator, traitor") capturing that something is betrayed in translation. Clearly a perfect translation, where the reader was unaware that the original even came from another culture, would be wrong, but something that too heavily lifts from other cultures would not be understandable. And the book does also need to work as literature in the new language. The next foreign language book I read, I will try to understand what decisions the translator has made, and what I think of them. Then I will post my conclusions on this thread, and that will be one more of the world's problems sorted.
LindsD
LindsD
Jul 2020
8:25am, 19 Jul 2020
39,042 posts
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LindsD
Nice review :)

About point 3: you might want to consult the thread's resident translator, too. ;)

[Seriously, if you want to read more about translation, and what is known as The Translator's Invisibility, give me a shout.]
Diogenes
Diogenes
Jul 2020
8:32am, 19 Jul 2020
51,160 posts
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Diogenes
I’d like to here more sbout that, anyway
Peregrinator
Peregrinator
Jul 2020
8:44am, 19 Jul 2020
634 posts
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Peregrinator
Ah yes, the sentient nipple, I'd forgotten that.

LindsD: I'll add Issues of Translation to the summer-school topics (with things like Meaning in The Master and Margarita) and put you down to lead it.
LindsD
LindsD
Jul 2020
8:56am, 19 Jul 2020
39,045 posts
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LindsD
It's a deal :)

Dio, I'll be back later with more..

About This Thread

Maintained by McGoohan
Andrea Calimari likes nothing better than a lovely fish supper with squid rings and thick cut chips. Lots of salt and vinegar and eaten from the paper. Mmm-mm.

By contrast, his pal, Andrea Camilleri writes the adventures of detective Savlon Monty Balloon who solves food-crimes. Y'know, like Rosemary and Thyme off the telly. Only in Italian. His first Savlon novel was Shaky in the Water about Shakin' Stevens taking swimming lessons from the Krankies. I think that's what it's about, but I admit I only skimmed it.

Now read on!

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