The dreaded WALL!

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Chrisull Mar 2011 12:13pm, 5 Mar 2011 3,205 posts	0 Chrisull Read the article, but it still doesn't help me that much... I've identified a need to take supplements in the race. BUT I suffer from Reynauds, so in cold weather which is when I run most of my long races, my fingers are usually immobile for half the race, and I can't open or manipulate anything. Wear gloves... I do ok two downsides with this. One I get too hot and have to take them off. Reynauds hits very quick though. Two I often splash my gloves with drinks and any wind makes the gloves worse than wearing nothing. Even going out on a long run this happens, for instance on the last one I decide round about mile 14 to take my second gel/bar, but it's mile 17 out of 20 come the time I can actually get it out of my belt and consume, by that time, it's already a little too late. Same thing happened at the Cornish last year. This is even with cutting half the top off bars. I discarded my belt in frustration, because I just could not move my fingers at mile 23. Also is there a difference between the cyclists "bonk" and the marathon runner's "wall"? I get a feeling there is? I'd define the first being a blood sugar crash, which is horrible, the second being glycogen depletion. Or am I mixing/muddling things here???
Battlecat Mar 2011 12:19pm, 5 Mar 2011 1,578 posts	0 Battlecat I'm not sure if I've hit the wall before. I've got to points where I really felt like I couldn't go on but that was the last 2 Edinburgh's and I've put both of those down to heat rather than anything else. I've bonked on the bike though which is horrible. Maybe because biking uses less energy than running you don't notice yourself needing more fuel and then suddenly...crash, bonk, vomit. A bit of sugar fixed the bike bonk fairly quickly but I don't think it's as easy to fix as when you hit the wall running. I the run up to my first marathon I cried at Run Fat Boy Run!
Paul Snell Mar 2011 1:12pm, 5 Mar 2011 1,001 posts	0 Paul Snell Good thread Nellers, +1 for Keiran's comments. The wall or bonk is caused by collapse in blood sugar (IMHO) which is the only fuel source for the nervous system. The legs can run on fat stores, but not as fast as when running on carbohydrate/sugar. When I ran Rutland (my only mara) I could feel it getting harder, then at about mile 22ish, the wheels just fell off completely. It can happen. My mental strategy for next time is that "you think you are going to die, but you are not going to die. Try to keep going". My physical strategy is to start training much earlier (genius, no?) and to take it really easy for the first 16 miles. You have done lots of training, all you have to do now is run round!
Nellers Mar 2011 1:14pm, 5 Mar 2011 16,169 posts	0 Nellers I always thought the cycling bonk was the same thing as hitting the wall but I'm only able to say that from the point of view of a cyclist/canoeist who has "bonked". Never having raced that far on foot I couldn't tell you if it really is though.
Foxy Davy Mar 2011 1:34pm, 5 Mar 2011 20,239 posts	0 Foxy Davy Hit the wall last week in Malta & due to flooding had to climb & run along it !!
Paul Snell Mar 2011 1:38pm, 5 Mar 2011 1,003 posts	0 Paul Snell Paula Newby Fraser finishes Hawaii 1995 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_utqeQALVE&feature=related She says "I think I am going to die". She doesn't die, she gets 4th!
Mick n Phil Mar 2011 1:47pm, 5 Mar 2011 12,827 posts	0 Mick n Phil Nellers this is an exceptional thread that you have started, one that to my mind, in expereinced marathoners ( of first timers ) should read and take note of as many of us, can pass our expereinces down - as shit i can tell you *( if i knew then - what i know now ) * and if only to get the notion out of ones head that a FM is simply 2 HM's There are loads fo reasons for a marathon to go wrong, as that is what the WALL is, it dont have to be 18 - 22 miles, although when one has passed the 13 mile half marathon marker, and one realises this time theres still way to go , generally at 16 onwrads to around 22 , thats when fatigue sets in it's when it all goes tits up - and as i say, loads of reasons for it - hence one main reason, ( like u said Nellers ) one has to give themselves a bloody good talking to , and say to themselves, " have i done all these hours and miles of training to give up now " the longer the distance goes on the body can get tired - one of the easiest reasons to give up mentally - if for say Your feet, Blistered so bad, bleeding, etc, so raw and sore it just causes one to throw the towel in ( YES), its happened to myself .... hence why i am writing this this is why i make sure my socks and trainers are comphy, laces not too tight, not to loose and my feet and socks not able to slide, plus my feel lubricated in - ( for me the chosen lube is vaseline ) and on route shoud any grit get into my trasiners, i stop and remove it
Nellers Mar 2011 1:51pm, 5 Mar 2011 16,171 posts	0 Nellers Good advice, Mick. thanks. Control the things that are controllable.
Mick n Phil Mar 2011 2:35pm, 5 Mar 2011 12,830 posts	0 Mick n Phil Can I talk about the nerves of it all I too have messed up marathons myself, with Phillip and in my solo years without Phillip The ones I messed up pushing Phil are different, as pushing him there’s so much more to consider and deal with , Running solo is different , especially when one is flowing so free, mile after mile, flowing like the birds that’s the bit to really take the advantage of, get the drinks at drink points etc When the miles are just flowing by, - being ready and prepared to expect the unexpected People often get nervous before their big day, it can be prevented, lack of sleep, nutrician and fluids , if one doesn’t sleep or eat to well last 2 nights before, not to worry as prep should be complete by then One of the biggest bloody stupid things to do is say a week or two or 3 weeks before is to eat or drink something you’ve not had before - to find it don’t agree with you There’s all the months of training to do that “ Stick with the devil you know “ Then there’s races day and build up to it nerves, one can be so physically sick they end up DNS, or so excited on route, burn up in early miles and ure beggared, or so excitingly see the finish line far too quickly and be sick on route and DNF - all the work for SFA One is advised to try and go to toilet just before starting, as it’s really possible to go on route and cannot get going again
runnybunny Mar 2011 2:37pm, 5 Mar 2011 310 posts	0 runnybunny I've had 2 quite different wall/fatigue experiences, both at the Nottingham marathon. In 2008, I slowed down steadily from 17-22 miles (lost about 3 mins per mile over that period) then perked up a bit for the last couple of miles, while in 2010 it was a sudden drop at about 17 miles (almost 2 mins per mile difference in consecutive miles) and I never recovered the pace. In 2008 I carb loaded more effectively, in 2010 I didn't (long story, but ate poorly for most of the preceding week). In 2008 I used gels - not that keen on them, so procrastinated when I should have been getting them down me. In 2010 I used marzipan, but too late - combined it with gel and bottled lucozade from water stations, and overdid the scoffing at about 19 miles trying to recover things, then felt gross for several miles. The training's pretty consistent - at least 5x20 milers. And I do finish, but I don't enjoy it. Not sure whether my problem is being carp at fuelling, particularly during a race, or just not being able to metabolise fat very easily. My marathons are very slow compared with other races (sub-2hr halves, 5hr marathons). I've kind of given up on them a bit as I've done 3, all of which were pretty miserable experiences.