Sub 18 5k
120 watchers
Jul 2022
12:02pm, 7 Jul 2022
18,319 posts
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larkim
Favourites yes. But there's more than just favourites in races.
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Jul 2022
12:06pm, 7 Jul 2022
12,921 posts
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jda
I agree with SPR that the two Olympic 5k races won’t typically be up at PB pace for most athletes if any. OTOH a lot of them are doubling up for 10k too. I wasn’t meaning it as proof but more as a vague guide as to what seems reasonable. Only a 3 day gap there too. I’d have thought that depending on quality of prep the second race could even go better, due to the recent familiarity/experience. |
Jul 2022
12:35pm, 7 Jul 2022
37,334 posts
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SPR
Favourites yes. But there's more than just favourites in races. What's the debate then? I didn't say anything that contradicted that. Those just trying to make the final aren't going to be medal contenders in most instances. They might be running in the final just getting there is their main objective. SPR said: Re champs, the best runners won't be near their limit (tempo) for slower runners, getting to final is their final. |
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Jul 2022
12:49pm, 7 Jul 2022
18,320 posts
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larkim
I just think there's a risk in this analysis that the focus is on those in medal contention, whereas the question of whether you can be at your best a few days apart needs to apply to the "mid pack" runners who are the ones for whom a successful championship performance would be stretching themselves to their max in both the heat and the final.
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Jul 2022
1:00pm, 7 Jul 2022
37,338 posts
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SPR
Ok, fair enough. My point was that getting to the final is the A race for a lot of them. They want to do well in the final of course but a drop off isn't the end of the world if not contending and sometimes the semis are slow for even the slower runners that qualify. I don't remember many runners taking it out in qualifying.
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Jul 2022
1:14pm, 7 Jul 2022
18,322 posts
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larkim
I definitely agree with that mentality for some, and that's the right attitude too for a lot of developing athletes. I wonder then, though, if we are in a position to determine if it is possible to run your best and then your best 4 days later over 5k as an elite. Looking down the list from previous years often the heats are run a lot quicker than the finals, but there are quite a few examples of runners hitting a PB in the heat but then finishing a long way off in the final, even in a slower race. I may be missing context, and I've just extracted these as data points. But, e.g. Julia Bleasdale in London 2012. PB of 15:02 in the faster of the two heats to qualify for the final (race won in 15:01), final 15:14 (race won in 15:04). Might she have finished higher in the final (I'm *not* saying she'd have run a 15:02 and therefore won, btw) if she'd not run a PB in the heat? Or was her 15:14 as close to being a great performance in the final (noting Molly Huddle ran 15:02/15:20 for example). She did lose out to Pavey in the final whereas she'd beaten her in the heat, but that could well have been Pavey's longer champs experience knowing she'd done enough to qualify. It's those sorts of performances though that might give the insight into what is possible a few days apart, as the cream of the crop aren't having to run as hard in the heats as they do in the final. So for a hobbyist, if I feel I'm in fantastic shape, and I've got a flat fast parkrun on Saturday and a flat fast club 5k race on Wednesday, is it physiologically correct to say that Saturday's effort does not affect Wednesday's at all? |
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Jul 2022
1:27pm, 7 Jul 2022
37,339 posts
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SPR
You'd have to look at how each race was run, which makes things harder. As I said, I wouldn't want to do two A 5000 four days apart but I've done 1500/800 PBs or close with that type of gap over a two week period. So guess it depends on conditioning and what counts as over distance. |
Jul 2022
1:32pm, 7 Jul 2022
77,333 posts
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Gobi
Like you say it's what you are used to I remember racing sat morning, sat evening and Sunday when ultra distance training. Or doing a marathon and then a 50k a week later This year Sb 800 followed by 10min 3000(7 secs off sb but fastest outdoor 3)on the Wednesday Followed by a 16.58 5000 on the Sunday (first ever sub 17 on the track) |
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Jul 2022
1:33pm, 7 Jul 2022
37,340 posts
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SPR
Last year, 3000 PB on 9 Jun, 1500 PB 13 Jun, 800 PB 16 Jun, 1500 PB 20 Jun. There was also a poor 1500 on 6 Jun. Was pretty knackered by the last 1500. |
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Jul 2022
1:35pm, 7 Jul 2022
77,334 posts
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Gobi
Point being it can be done by us mere mortals
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