So who won the tour from 1999 to 2005
80 watchers
Sep 2020
10:53am, 21 Sep 2020
16,609 posts
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Chrisull
Given WVA saved a bit for the climb it seemed, then it would possibly have seemed to be a JV strategy. You could also make a case that Dumoulin ALSO saved a bit for the climb too.
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Sep 2020
11:52am, 21 Sep 2020
31,538 posts
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SPR
Nope, Dumoulin rode on TT bike the whole way so different strategy on the face of it and it doesn't compute with how they rode. I'm not calling doping on Pogacar here but he absolutely smashed it out the park compared to the others. |
Sep 2020
12:05pm, 21 Sep 2020
12,009 posts
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larkim
That much is self evident - whoever won the TdF this year rode it faster than anyone else. In and of itself that doesn't make it illegitimate. Pogacar was well clear of the others, but then he had the motivation to dig deeper than anyone other than Roglic and I don't think many would have argued that we knew before Saturday that either Pog or Rog were the cream of the crop. TT legs at the end of a 3 week race are also different than TT legs freshly prepared, so the hierarchy of who was strongest in terms of TT specialisms etc would also be expected to be shaken up at that stage. If you want to see doping, you can make a case for it by pointing a finger at any winner. But in the absence of any evidence, it wouldn't sit well with me as being the first port of call to define the differences between different riders. |
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Sep 2020
12:52pm, 21 Sep 2020
31,540 posts
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SPR
Is that a reply to my post? If so... "That much is self evident - whoever won the TdF this year rode it faster than anyone else. In and of itself that doesn't make it illegitimate." I didn't say it made it illegitimate, in fact I've made it quite clear that it doesn't. However saying it like it Pogacar simply rode faster is down playing what happened a lot WVA dug deep he said before the TT, it was all or nothing and by definition Dumoulin did as well. The comments by Jumbo say the ride from Pogacar just wasn't expected. I think most would argue that Roglic was the TT favourite based on his volume of work. Pogacar beat him in one TT that was all uphill. Pogacar being young though means capabilities are still to be known. I totally agree with your last paragraph. I just don't think the performance needs to be played down even if you think it's not doping. |
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Sep 2020
1:17pm, 21 Sep 2020
12,011 posts
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larkim
It was sort of a reply and sort of a following up comment. I wasn't clear though so sorry if that sounded like I was thinking you were accusing Pog of doping. I was more contributing to the thread overall where others have raised eyebrows. I do agree it was an outstanding performance, and I think we all know that there will be plenty of people willing to point a finger just on the basis of that alone. Even if Dum and WVA dug deep though, they still wouldn't have the emotional driver that Pog had on Saturday. I bet if either of them had been tied for the lead of GC going into that TT that they would have found a little something else from somewhere, even if they couldn't provide a scientific basis for why that was possible though. |
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Sep 2020
1:30pm, 21 Sep 2020
31,542 posts
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SPR
No worries Larkim. It was the first paragraph that made it seem like a direct response but can see how it is a response to always suspecting the fastest in general. Yes, emotion can be positive and negative. We may here more about Roglic later, but it seems like it was truly out of the blue and no one expected it (no hidden sickness and team operating like every was going to plan until it wasn't). I honestly think Roglic thought he had it somewhat under control until the climb or a few km before the climb. The panic on the climb was obvious for all to see. |
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Sep 2020
2:45pm, 21 Sep 2020
16,611 posts
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Chrisull
The margins are so fine, it looked like he had. But his approach was different to say the Lance Armstrong - go and smash it out of the park approach, he could have rode the first part faster (and probably exploded earlier yes) and psychologically if he'd been up on Pog's times it might have fed the confidence.
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Sep 2020
4:23pm, 21 Sep 2020
1,959 posts
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MudMeanderer
Good article on where it may have been won or lost lacourseentete.com
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Sep 2020
8:10pm, 21 Sep 2020
940 posts
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Totriornottotri
twitter.com See Casablanca gif “I’m shocked”! Alternatively “look we’re doing anti-doping stuff, see! Nothing to see here”!
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Sep 2020
8:12pm, 21 Sep 2020
31,559 posts
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SPR
Related to Quintana's team
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