Proper Marathon Training

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Revbarbarag Nov 2013 9:38am, 20 Nov 2013 936 posts	0 Revbarbarag Mrs W - that's pretty much what I'm expecting to do. Re the longer than 3hrs/3:30 - the solution I'm mulling over is making them walk/runs. My long runs already include a bit of walking, but we're talking a minute or two while I scoff my gel, or a minute on the really steep bit of the last hill.... of my 2:30 run last week, probably less than 10 minutes was walking. So I was thinking that, rather than go for a 3 hour run which contained 10 minutes of walking, I could go for a 5 hour walk that contained 3 hours of running..... it would have to be on my day off, but OH likes long walks. All I need to do is persuade him to put up with me running ahead, coming back to join him, walking with him for 5 minutes then running off again....
JonP1 Nov 2013 11:42am, 20 Nov 2013 6 posts	0 JonP1 Interesting point about pacing your first marathon Rev. It is difficult. My goal for my first one at York in Oct was for 1 - make it to the finish! 2 - realistically aim for sub 4 hrs (although I wasnt sure how realistic this would be on race day, with a few set backs in training) I wasnt sure if i could keep that pace up through the whole 26 miles and that fear of the unknown past the 20 mile mark! My plan was to run the first half a little bit slower and relax into it and then for the second increase the pace gradually to a point then maintain it - it worked on the day for me and I ran a negative split of 4 mins - although it was brutal at the end not allowing my pace to drop! I have just looked at the time standards though based on my WAVA rating to get an understanding of what marathon time I should be aiming for based on my 10k, 10 mile, Half distance - my rating is 61, and by that standard for the marathon distance is stating that I should be able to run it in 3:25! - (if i am interpreting it right???!) Can someone tell me if this is this allowing a drop off in pace - as generally you slow down, the further the distance you run? I think I am along way off 3:25 pace at minute, although aimining for 3:37 at Manchester in April - after running 3:48 in York. Not sure if I fully understand the whole WAVA rating system yet.
Pootle Nov 2013 12:20pm, 20 Nov 2013 9,463 posts	0 Pootle My first marathon (London) I started "training" as soon as I found out I was in. I was only running about 5 miles at the time so gradually built my mileage up week by week, giving myself lots of time for rest weekends for Christmas and other "stuff". This years marathon I just got up on the day and ran (when I say "ran", stumbled like a wounded zombie would be a better description) it, with i think a few 6 mile treadmill runs in the 6 or so weeks proceeding it. I really wouldn't recommend doing that though.
Revbarbarag Nov 2013 1:23pm, 20 Nov 2013 937 posts	0 Revbarbarag Poodle: "Stumbled like a wounded zombie" - what a fantastic phrase! I think WAVA is a fantastic thing. My best (so far) is 53.31% at 5K - Parkrun, a very fiat course, set in July. The equivalents are 1:03:38 for 10K and 4:57 for the marathon. I ran a 10K at the beginning of August, off the back of two weeks holiday which involved too much food and not much running. I was aiming for 1:05 (it was a hilly course) and I was on track for the first 2 1/2 miles, but then a stitch did for me, and I finished in 1:09. 4:57 is a pace of 11:21/mile. The only place I run that pace and faster is Parkrun (short, flat). For shorter runs near home (3.5-6 miles, fairly hilly) I usually come in at 12:xx, and for my 10 mile and up runs, it's been 13:xx. Now admittedly, hilliness is an important factor. In my 10 mile runs near home, there is as much ascent as there is in the whole of the London course, so that will save me a bit of time. But I still think it would be quite tough for me to approach 12 min miles over the whole distance - that would be 5:13. Obviously a long time to go.... but I am envisaging that I will start out very conservatively, maybe a little faster than my recent long run pace at the time, but not a lot. Say if I was doing long runs at 13 mins/mile for a month before, I would not do any faster than 12 mins/mile for the first 10 miles, and would be content with doing 13. Then, after 10 miles, if my legs want to go a bit faster and I feel Ok, I will let them. Of course, I might change my mind before April
icemaiden Nov 2013 1:49pm, 20 Nov 2013 4,022 posts	0 icemaiden Rev - your legs will go as fast as you tell them too. It is most unlikely they will speed up over the second half - on average. The absolute key to running a comfortable, as far as you can, mara is getting the pace right from the start and not chopping and changing, but just keep on keeping on. Do not let your legs get the better of you until you can see the finish line and see then if you can speed up. You will not, I am sorry to say, keep your WAVA on track for a marathon based on your Parkrun WAVA, most people drop off the longer the distance is, allow for at least a 5% drop off, so around a WAVA of 48 is more likely even allowing for improvements in fitness while you are training (sorry). If you start off too fast you will not finish at the same pace and get into all sorts of trouble. Something in the 5:15 to 30s is not unreasonable and do not be disappointed with what might seem like a 'slow' time, just doing it is the important thing. For a relatively new runner who is, like me, on the slightly more mature side, it's a big ask of your body, and, on the day, of your head. If you do it at your comfy training pace and come back and tell us it was easy you can go harder next time.
Revbarbarag Nov 2013 5:59pm, 20 Nov 2013 938 posts	0 Revbarbarag Thanks, IM. As it happens, I put 5:30 on the form as my expected time. I will be more than happy to finish- I'd like to do it comfortably. Well, as comfortably as I can, anyway. What puzzled me is this thing that you do your long runs at MP + 2 mins/mile. I just can't see me running 26.2 miles at 11:30/mile. Nor do I want to slow my long runs down much more than I already have done. So it seems to me that to think of running the marathon at something close to my long run pace is the best strategy for being as comfortable as I can at the end. I'm probably repeating myself, so I'll shut up.
Derby Tup Nov 2013 6:05pm, 20 Nov 2013 8,204 posts	0 Derby Tup RevB, if your training goes well and you avoid injury there's no reason you can't speed up over both short distances and on longer runs. For a new-ish runner getting to the start line in decent enough shape to think you can both finish and enjoy your marathon is a great target in itself
Bru-Bru Nov 2013 6:08pm, 20 Nov 2013 2,355 posts	0 Bru-Bru What you have to remember is that all advice on pacing, how much speedwork to do, etc, etc. is a generalisation. People who are speedy need to go considerably slower on the long run than race pace because their race pace is speedy. People whose race pace is fairly pedestrian anyway probably do not need to slow down so much to get to the right training pace. The feel of the pace is probably the best guide, rathe than numbers. For a long run in training, you should be plodding a long at a pace which is comfortable and that you can maintain for extended periods of time, to build the aerobic efficiency "base" so that, in a race, you can up that pace (a bit) without running out of gas. What matter is that you get the miles done and you may find that, as you lose weight and fget fitter, your natural "easy" pace gets faster anyway.
Curly45 Nov 2013 6:21pm, 20 Nov 2013 2,186 posts	0 Curly45 Beginners tend to have a much lower differential from mp to lsr pace. I go with up to mp +25% but when I first did a marathon, I ran my long runs at the same pace I do now. Actually probably a bit quicker! It was tiring but I was doing lesson the week too (not that I am running much at the mo, but usually I will do two sessions and a long run, my first Mara I did one session and an lsr and no mid week long either).
Curly45 Nov 2013 6:22pm, 20 Nov 2013 2,187 posts	0 Curly45 Less in* Sorry my brain is working all that well at the moment so my typing skills are poor. Hope that made sense...