Marathon training, middle miles plan

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SPR May 2012 11:03pm, 21 May 2012 16,662 posts	0 SPR The Hansons’ schedules are based on the philosophy that no one workout is more important than another. "On some schedules, you rest the day before and after the 20-miler," says Kevin. "That’s putting too much emphasis on one workout. And for someone whose weekly mileage is going to top out at 50, it means they’re doing 40 percent of their running in one day." To people who question whether the elite Hansons-Brooks athletes do longer runs, he replies, "Sure, they’ll do a 20 to 22 miler, but it’s part of a 130-mile week. So it’s actually a smaller percentage of their total volume than it would be for someone doing less mileage." So it's about the best use of limited training miles, not necessarily the ideal plan, but better than a 20 run on limited miles plan.
SPR May 2012 11:04pm, 21 May 2012 16,663 posts	0 SPR Or so they say...
Curly45 May 2012 12:08am, 22 May 2012 475 posts	0 Curly45 Well that is true in a way. For most athletes there is a huge dichotomy between training long enough to do themselves justice at the marathon and the fact that in doing so they are compromising the rest of their training because the lsr is far too much of their weekly volume. Its why I personally don't believe you can run your best marathon until you have a few cumulative years of 60 miles + a week... but not everyone can give it that hence plans need to be a compromise. You can see the logic of the hanson type plans. However, any training like that would make a very comfortable training journey but a hard as hell marathon day. Plans that involve longer runs on lower mileage involve very tough training (and a high injury risk because of this) but an easier and supposedly more successful day. I dont think there is any answer that is really satisfactory for the lay marathoner...running your long runs slow enough certainly helps, but still a 50 mile a week plan isn't going to leave much room for MP at the end of a long run for example that can really make the difference come race day.
Gobi May 2012 7:52am, 22 May 2012 47,600 posts	0 Gobi This post will offend people, it is not my intention but as a coach I need to say it the way it is. This is not an elitist comment. Most people shouldn't be running marathons really as they don't really have the want or desire to prepare well enough. Sadly we live in a charity driven world where 7 hour marathons get you a well done you rock and magazines are full of this will get you round plans that have as little mileage as possible. If you want to do it properly then you need adequate volume, you need the long run and you need to understand the simple principles. Hard Easy Steady Most people confuse steady and easy and end up training too hard too often. I didn't write rest as people get too carried away on the phrase "you make gains while resting" you have to train enough to need the rest to make the gains. Spend too much time in the wrong zones and too much time resting and you go nowhere.
Lovely Lovely Gorgeous May 2012 8:00am, 22 May 2012 455 posts	0 Lovely Lovely Gorgeous I agree with Gobi. My three week taper killed my marathon training.
Maclennane May 2012 8:06am, 22 May 2012 18,753 posts	0 Maclennane not that I want this to end up in another argument but... why not, why shouldn't a 6/7hr runner do marathons? I wouldn't want too, it sounds too painful, but then I run 4hr marathons, and there are people who think I shouldn't be doing that, but I like it.
SPR May 2012 8:25am, 22 May 2012 16,664 posts	0 SPR I think Gobi's point is a lot of them don't have to be running 7 hour marathons, with the right training... Curly - looking at the Hanson plan, it is not easy. Look at the days leading up to the 16 mile runs
Marts May 2012 8:27am, 22 May 2012 3,580 posts	0 Marts G - I agree and it's not elitest it's just factual. My club is a road running and XC club that is also in a very low key track and field league where we just turn up and have fun. we don't do a 'ring round' the day before to make sure we fill every event by getting our 10k runners to throw the hammer or our marathoners to do the 110m hurdles just to get 1 point. Many of us have had a go at throws, jumps and sprints and we can complete the events off inadequate training, but obviously not to our full potential. One meeting I decided to do some sprints, throws and Jumps. The figures below show what happens when training is specific to the events I didn't train at all for throws, just turned up and did them and got, shot 4.88, discuss 10.81m and javelin 17,82m giving WAVA's of between 10 and 21 equating to marathon time of 9:51-14:16 (interestingly the best wava was javelin which at least has some running in it) I didn't train for Long jump, but obviously as a runner I have the running element. I did 3.21m WAVA of 37% giving me a 5:34 marathon prediction I don't train specifically for sprints although some of my marathon training has elements which help without specific training to that event. times for 100m 16.1s 200m 33.9s 400m 71.8s WAVAs 58-61% giving marathon time of 3:23-3:34 My marathon PB is 2:44 and I have 10 sub 3 clockings (not boasting, just illustrating). I train for marathons with long runs, progressive runs and when not injured do about 50-60 miles a week. and my PB is a 75% wava equating to Shot Putt 17.52m (PB 4.88m) Discus 56.17m (PB 10.81m) Jav 72.18m (PB 17.82m) LJ 6.52m (PB 3.21m) 100m 12.95s (PB 16.1s) 200m 26.22s (PB 33.9s) 400m 58.24s (PB 71.8s) Event specific training is the key and I'm afraid that for marathons that does mean long runs
Fenland Runner May 2012 8:29am, 22 May 2012 13,266 posts	0 Fenland Runner Don't forget the 'individual'! What is 'adequate' for one person would nearly kill (injury) another. How about less emphasis on the goal and more on the process. If you 'love' running and desire to knock out over 50% of your weekly mileage in one run, why not?
Marts May 2012 8:29am, 22 May 2012 3,581 posts	0 Marts My post took half an hour to research and type but I took Gobi's 7 hour comment the same way that SPR did. I would suspect many of the 7 hour marathon runners probably do splits of 2:45/4:15 for the 2 halfs, but i'll check VLM results